News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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BradJC
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Re: News & Discussion: MetroCard System

#901 Post by BradJC » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:41 pm

Archer wrote:
Allkai wrote: Ah that makes sense. The recharge is instantaneous, but the payment processing can be later.

Thanks.
How would that work if the payment was declined for say, Insufficient Funds or an Expired Card? Isn't there the potential then for the recharge to have been made and the payment for that recharge later declined? I wouldn't think that it would work that way to avoid exactly this issue.
Card expiration is not an issue. When a card is close to expiring, Adelaide Metro can notify you to update your details. If you fail to update by the expiry, auto-recharge is disabled (maximum 24hr delay).

Insufficient funds is an issue with debit cards. If a card returns any sort of charge problem, Adelaide Metro could simply notify the owner of a billing issue. If the owner fails to pay up by a certain period (perhaps 1 day? 2 days? 3 days?), cancel auto-recharge and disable the Metrocard. You can only use your Metrocard so many times in one day, and the processing servers will be able to discover any issues in the evening of the day of an auto-recharge. Being a public transport service, a certain number of uncharged trips is acceptable.

From what I can tell, transaction details are only synced once a day. With a $5 threshold, there is no other way to prevent insufficient credit throughout a day's travel without an instantaneous recharge.

I'm assuming/guessing a few details here, so my thoughts could potentially be wrong.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#902 Post by PeFe » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:09 am

From Adelaide Now
Fans swamp public transport after Clipsal 500, Soundwave
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Motor racing fans looking for a way home after the Clipsal 500, coupled with those from music event Soundwave, caused a massive drain on public transport at the weekend. Source: Getty Images
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THE State Government should consider increasing public transport services during weekend major events to mirror weekday services, the Opposition says.

Adelaide's public transport network struggled to cope with increased demand on the weekend because of major events in the city, despite the Transport Department calling in every available bus, train and tram.

A record 95,000 people attended the Clipsal 500 race on Sunday.

On Saturday, the race attracted about 80,000 spectators and a further 45,000 people attended the Soundwave festival at Bonython Park, creating high demand for public transport.

Taxi ranks were also inundated, resulting in long waits for some revellers.

Opposition transport spokeswoman Vickie Chapman said the option of extending weekday timetables to the weekend "has merit and should be looked at further".



Transport Services Minister Chloe Fox said she had asked the department "if there is anything that can be done to improve bus, train and tram services for the thousands of people expected to attend this weekend's event".

She said the department followed a special events management plan to provide extra services after major events and that had worked well in the past but something "went wrong" over the weekend.

Transport department deputy chief executive of public transport Emma Thomas said extra buses and trains were put on and services ran more frequently than on a weekday timetable at peak periods of demand throughout the weekend.

"I think we had as many buses and trains as we could possibly have out there," she said.

"We did have a plan and the trams come really regularly but all of those people (at Soundwave and the Clipsal 500) flooded out at the same time, all wanted to get on a tram at once and that wasn't possible."


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 6590295315

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#903 Post by buildit83 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:49 am

next year when all the festivals are on the public transport network will be much better placed to handle 'Mad March' load with Seaford, Tonsley and Belair railway lines will be back up and running. having new electric trains 22x3 car sets running on the Tonsely and Seaford lines will increase frequency of trains with more running stock over the network. the buses currently used for the train substitutes will also be available for extra services for the Clipsal 500, Fringe Festival, Adelaide Festival, Soundwave and WOMAD next year.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#904 Post by bay transit » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:38 am

Those MAN and Mercedes Artic buses are only used for Rail Sub services and certainly not going to be used anywhere else.
There are sufficient buses available to use for extra services(that PTS didn't put on this weekend).There were lots of spare Artic and rigid buses sitting in various depots around Adelaide,but PTS didn't use them-shame!

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#905 Post by [Shuz] » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:26 am

bay transit wrote:Those MAN and Mercedes Artic buses are only used for Rail Sub services and certainly not going to be used anywhere else.
There are sufficient buses available to use for extra services(that PTS didn't put on this weekend).There were lots of spare Artic and rigid buses sitting in various depots around Adelaide,but PTS didn't use them-shame!
If this is true, then that is disappointing to hear.
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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#906 Post by peas_and_corn » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:39 pm

There were plenty of trams taking people from Soundwave (one arrived every 5 or so minutes), the buses I don't know how much they were increased by- a bus was waiting for me at the stop when I got there but I don't know if it was an extra or not.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#907 Post by Hooligan » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:20 am

Next year will be interesting to see how public transport deals with the footy crowds

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#908 Post by bay transit » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:13 pm

Adelaide Metro ran tram services from Glenelg through to the Entertainment Centre all day on Saturday every 10 minutes.The problem came when 43000 people decided to leave after the concert at the same time-obviously there was not enough public transport to cater for a crowd of this size!
As regards Footy at Adelaide Oval from 2014 current planning is to turn King William Road from North Terrace to Pennington Terrace into a bus/commuter mall.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#909 Post by SRW » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:10 pm

Diesel-electric bus trial in Adelaide
ABC News Online, 11 March 2013
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A bus powered by electricity and diesel fuel is on trial in the Adelaide CBD.

It has been bought by the South Australian Government for about $700,000, which is about $200,000 more than a standard diesel bus of its size.

The bus is being used on the 99C city loop.

"If it works out well along these routes then certainly we would consider going ahead with more purchases," said Transport Services Minister Chloe Fox.

"This bus has been built using a South Australian company Custom Coaches and a Scottish company and if it works out we would consider using it again."
Keep Adelaide Weird

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#910 Post by Aidan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:56 pm

(apologies to claybro for not responding sooner)
claybro wrote:Aidan, I have here explained how a city, almost identical to Adelaide 40 years ago managed to drag itself into the modern era, even without massive mining royalties. All it took was a comprehensive plan, and a willingness to find funding.Yes Perth for a short while considered closing 1 line...but the new freeways were planned with wide medians to cater for rail lines, so any lines that where to be closed where to be replaced with new lines.A WA transport minister of the 80's even travelled to Adelaide when toying with the idea of OBahns in the middle of the freeways. They went away convinced that the buses would not have enough capacity to cope(smart in hindsight), and therefore the freeway train lines where developed.
AIUI the original freeways were built too narrow to meet demand, and had to be widened at considerable expense. And was building new lines down freeways actually government policy at the time a line was slated for closure?
And your response, typical of so many in Adelaide is..shouldnt, cant, wont, not needed yet..too expensive.. no money
Where money is limited, it should be spent in the way that does the most good. I make no apologies for opposing expensive grossly overengineered solutions, nor socially disruptive ones.
Please advise of your ideas for infastructure funding?
The first thing to do is bust the myth that (at national level) deficits are something that we, or future generations, will eventually have to pay off. They're not - most of the debt accrued is money that we owe ourselves. Interest paid on it goes into Reserve Bank profits, so the government recoups that too (actually the borrowing tends to be indirect which helps with bank liquidity, but the money does originate with the Reserve Bank). We should try to better calculate the true economic effects of infrastructure (comparing the immediate inflationary effects of spending money on it with the long term deflationary effects of having it available for use).

Unlike his other policies, Bob Katter's idea of a regional development bank is an extremely good one, as it would ensure money is available, and enable such spending to be somewhat depoliticized.

At the state level we need two things, abundant long term funding and cheap credit. The best way to get abundant funding is to phase in a broad based land tax extremely gradually (over several decades). This would avoid significantly disadvantaging anyone, but would have the great advantage of slowing the increase of land prices.

The best source of cheap credit should be the Reserve Bank itself, But if that remains off limits to the state government, and the regional development bank idea also falls flat, so we're forced to stick with the bond market, we should at least try to short circuit the incompetent ratings agencies which have encouraged state governments to pursue false economies. We would need to convince bondholders they're money's 100% safe. I think the best way to do that would be to announce what taxes would be raised, and what spending would be cut, in the hypothetical (practically impossible) situation that money suddenly becomes unavailable.
The Federal government has made it quite clear that unless the state is willing to find funds by either tolls or levys, they will withhold funding. If a state levy is unlawful...then change the law.
I'm all for a state levy, but it may not just be a matter of just changing the law. IIRC the stat's actions were found to be unconstitutional. So there either needs to be a change in the constitution (very difficult to achieve) or a cooperative arrangement with the Federal government to get round it (very difficult to sustain through changes of government). But if we can find a way to impose one,we should.
If the concern is accountability of funds, then set up a comittee to monitor the spending.
I'm pretty sure that wouldn't solve the problem. We need total transparency in the decision making process.
If tolls are unpopular, then build the infastructure by announcing the tollway at the time of construction so there is no hidden agenda. At present, we have no comprehensive plan good bad or otherwise to present to the Federal Government, or any willingness to find alternative direct streams of revenue to co- fund future transport infastructure.
Agreed.
Just build it wrote:Bye Union Hall. I'll see you in another life, when we are both cats.

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Re: News & Discussion: Public Transport

#911 Post by claybro » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:55 pm

Aidan wrote:AIUI the original freeways were built too narrow to meet demand, and had to be widened at considerable expense. And was building new lines down freeways actually government policy at the time a line was slated for closure?
Most original freeways built 30 years ago are too narrow. But they were a beginning and the considerable expense of widening is nothing compared to the mamouth expense of starting from scratch that we are now faced with. And yes.. although the WA gov considered closing 1 line, it was always the plan to integrate public transport with the freeway system. In the end, that line remianed open, and 2 additional lines were able to be constructed in the reserve created by the Mitchell and Kwinnana freeways.
Aidan wrote:Where money is limited, it should be spent in the way that does the most good. I make no apologies for opposing expensive grossly overengineered solutions, nor socially disruptive ones.
Could not agree more. Therefore I am a bit dismayed by the duplication of the Southern EXPY and the SUPERWAY together approx 1.3 Billion when not part of a fully costed COMPREHENSIVE plan for a North/South freeway. As for over engineered socially disruptive solutions, having just spent the last 2 months working out of Perth, the good citizens of WA would not consider their freeways and trains either over engineered or socially disruptive. The city without them ..would be.
Aidan wrote:The first thing to do is bust the myth that (at national level) deficits are something that we, or future generations, will eventually have to pay off. They're not - most of the debt accrued is money that we owe ourselves. Interest paid on it goes into Reserve Bank profits, so the government recoups that too (actually the borrowing tends to be indirect which helps with bank liquidity, but the money does originate with the Reserve Bank). We should try to better calculate the true economic effects of infrastructure (comparing the immediate inflationary effects of spending money on it with the long term deflationary effects of having it available for use).
Also agree with you here Aidan, but in order to take on the extra defecit, we need to come up with some alternative income streams. We are the only state that in modern times has not contributed DIRECTLY via tolls or levies to freeway construction.

AND.....apology accepted. :)

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Re: News & Discussion: MetroCard System

#912 Post by PeFe » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:30 pm

Just got back from 2 weeks in Adelaide visting family and enjoying the Festival/Fringe and so it was my first opprtunity to use the new Metrocard. First impressions are that it works really well, speedy validating and few technical problems (for me or other passengers). However I disliked having to decide in the mornings whether to buy a daytrip or use the Metrocard. I would propose that a daily $10 cap be put in place for Metrocard holders whilst daytrip tickets should increase to $11 therefore rewarding people who use the Metrocard but allowing tourists/very infrequent public transport users to still use a daytrip. This would encourage more people to use Metrocard speeding up the whole transport system. Also I think Adelaide Metro should start a new campaign targeting infrequent users of public transport (but residents) to buy a Metrocard and use it (even if you only use public transport 3 or 4 times a year). A number of times 5 or 6 people boarded my local bus and all wanted to buy tickets.....what a slow tedious process, whilst other times the bus stopped and 6 people with Metrocards boarded and we were on our way in no time! Funnily enough I now have more sympathy for the Victorian government and the idea of smart cards only as a transport ticket or at least having a ticket before you enter a public transport vehicle. And I also found myself explaining to other people on the tram how to use the ticket machine, what an interpeak ticket was, how the 2 hour limit worked.....

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Re: News & Discussion: MetroCard System

#913 Post by metro » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:12 pm

PeFe wrote:Funnily enough I now have more sympathy for the Victorian government and the idea of smart cards only as a transport ticket or at least having a ticket before you enter a public transport vehicle.
Nope, nobody likes the Victorian MyKi card-only system, it's just designed to rip off visitors and forced locals to use a system they do not like. To compare, in Adelaide it's $5 for 2 hours, in Sydney it's $5 to go 26km from Town Hall to Parramatta, and in Melbourne a tourist has to pay $12 ($6 for the Card, and $6 for the fare) to do a short trip of 15km from Box Hill to Spencer St. Even minus the cost of the card the $6 fare is still more expensive than Sydney and Adelaide. Will be a shame if Sydney's Opal system ends up following the expensive Melbourne card-only failure. :roll:

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Re: News & Discussion: MetroCard System

#914 Post by peas_and_corn » Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:43 pm

metro wrote:
PeFe wrote:Funnily enough I now have more sympathy for the Victorian government and the idea of smart cards only as a transport ticket or at least having a ticket before you enter a public transport vehicle.
Nope, nobody likes the Victorian MyKi card-only system, it's just designed to rip off visitors and forced locals to use a system they do not like. To compare, in Adelaide it's $5 for 2 hours, in Sydney it's $5 to go 26km from Town Hall to Parramatta, and in Melbourne a tourist has to pay $12 ($6 for the Card, and $6 for the fare) to do a short trip of 15km from Box Hill to Spencer St. Even minus the cost of the card the $6 fare is still more expensive than Sydney and Adelaide. Will be a shame if Sydney's Opal system ends up following the expensive Melbourne card-only failure. :roll:
Or you could visit the tourist info place at Fed Square and get a card for free.

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Re: News & Discussion: MetroCard System

#915 Post by monotonehell » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:09 pm

peas_and_corn wrote:
metro wrote:
PeFe wrote:Funnily enough I now have more sympathy for the Victorian government and the idea of smart cards only as a transport ticket or at least having a ticket before you enter a public transport vehicle.
Nope, nobody likes the Victorian MyKi card-only system, it's just designed to rip off visitors and forced locals to use a system they do not like. To compare, in Adelaide it's $5 for 2 hours, in Sydney it's $5 to go 26km from Town Hall to Parramatta, and in Melbourne a tourist has to pay $12 ($6 for the Card, and $6 for the fare) to do a short trip of 15km from Box Hill to Spencer St. Even minus the cost of the card the $6 fare is still more expensive than Sydney and Adelaide. Will be a shame if Sydney's Opal system ends up following the expensive Melbourne card-only failure. :roll:
Or you could visit the tourist info place at Fed Square and get a card for free.
This confusing double standard shows that the system is broken.
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