News & Discussion: National Broadband Network

[monotonehell]

So just to recap, the very left wing Melbourne University, has an article on "election watch" shouting the virtues of the NBN. They even have a photo of the very professor from the NBN TV adds in their article. So we now know which university the lovely professor who simply cant exist without his NBN in the TV add comes from. So much for being unbiased. So then where do they get their costing figures from? The NBNCO? The same Co that is way behind schedule and WAY over budget and under their take up target in areas connected even before this gets off the ground?

Bias in reporting is a sad affliction of this politicised issue, that's why you don't just take one source's word for this. Like I said this article is a summary of what we already know.

OK sarcasm aside, just as a lay person, who really wants to get on board with this, lets look at their facts. So the figure (even in this article is now $44BIL) I thought it was $35 BIL last year. Ok so what's a few billion you say. That increase in cost is over 1 year and it has not even got off the ground yet. How can we possibly know it will stop at $44BIL. Ah but even at $100BIL it would be worth it eh, because as is constantly pointed out, UPLOAD speeds are as important as DOWNLOAD. Yeh I get that,

It's good that you get this.

...but aren't the upload and download speeds identical under both systems in wireless and satellite devices, and given that is what the vast majority of people are connected to, via smart phones and Ipads I am still at a loss to understand why every home will be connected. People do not plug their tablets into a wall jack at home to browse.

No, you're not understanding the technology. Wireless and Satellite in the NBN are only used for niche cases where fiber is not possible. People with their mobile devices do not connect to these. Wireless and Satellite in this sense are fixed antenna services (a parabolic antenna or dish pointed in a very specific direction), not to be confused with domestic mobile wireless (WiFi). WiFi is what people with their mobile devices in homes and coffee houses are connecting to. These services are privately held and plugged into the building's wired connection.

Also, organisations such as unis, hospitals and the like that require the added capacity of cable to premises will be able to connect to cable under both systems, as it should be.

Except under the Lib's plan, we spend around 30 billion on a system that will be obsolete the year after it is complete, a copper network that will cost us even more to repair (remember the copper system is on its last legs), and a system that costs a lot more to run in terms of power (add to the 30 billion the costs that they haven't included for cabinets).

It's a false economy.

Should K Rudd win the next election, this will become a very big rope around the governments neck as far as bad publicity (poor execution of the project, cost over runs, delays and poor uptake), and financial drain. Just watch as he backflips and scales down or delays aspect of this project as well, once it becomes political poison.

I'd rather the whole thing be abandoned than to waste 30 billion on buying a pup.

Do it right or don't do it. I wish this wasn't a politicised issue so we could actually get past all the FUD and do it right.

[claybro]

I do understand after much reading on this subject that the fibre to premises is far and away the best option, even if I still doubt every home requires connection, it will modernise/replace our dilapidated copper network. My only nagging concern now is the current governments ability to deliver it in any form that is financially viable. Given that the stated cost is rising at an alarming rate, now up $10BIL in just 1 year I just wonder at which point it is economically unviable for Australia? $60BIL-$80BIL?? Just how far do we commit to this? Figures of up to $90Billion have been bandied around, and whilst I am not so stupid as to believe opposition scare campaigns it also worries me that the mere mention of a forensic audit of NBN by Turnbull has sent those in charge of the rollout scurrying for cover and threatening legal action. What are they hiding? Given the astronomical cost of this, it should be scrutinised to within an inch of its life, to avoid the inevitable politicising of cost, time, take up and performance issues. Labors current willingness to just throw money at any problem that arises will not work, when the stakes are so high.

[rubberman]

Claybro,

It is a sad fact of life that major projects in both the public and private sectors have a consistent habit of over-running in terms of cost and time. It is a well-studied phenomenon called 'project optimism bias'. Neither political party has performed better than the other on this. For every example of poor performance that can be trotted out by one party, there is another example that the other party can provide.

Put another way, this is NOT a political phenomenon. No politician actually project manages these projects, they rely on project managers. It would not matter which party was in power, it would be the performance of the project managers that counts the most - once the project has been agreed to and initiated.

Where politicians can and do make a difference is in timely recognition of when something is required by electors, and then setting the process in motion. Again, I don't see either party covering themselves in glory here.

[Thunderstruck]

Got my NBN up and running and absolutely love it. With 13 different points throughout the house to choose from plus can have 4 different connections plugged in at once and the rest can be wireless, it certainly is great when downloading. Speedtest the other day and had 93mbps with about 40mbps upload.

[rev]

Got my NBN up and running and absolutely love it. With 13 different points throughout the house to choose from plus can have 4 different connections plugged in at once and the rest can be wireless, it certainly is great when downloading. Speedtest the other day and had 93mbps with about 40mbps upload.

What are you paying and what ISP you with, if you don't mind me asking.

There's a new housing development at Largs North with land for sale, being advertised as NBN ready.

[Dog]

Recently discovered I had cable (that's the old cable not NBN) connected to my house, so decided to swap over from the ADSL I had been using.
The Telstra cable guy came out, to hook a cable modem and T box up, thought it would be an easy job as I already had the connection on the wall next to the TV, no didn't work.
He checked in my roof and the box outside, so what was the problem? The Telstra pit in the street had been full of water and a couple of inches had corroded off the end my cable. When I looked at the rest of the mess in the pit I now know why my old ADSL was so crap.
The thought that under the coalitions plan we will be paying Telstra to use this antiquated corroded mess is ludicrous. And the thought of replacing it with more vulnerable copper is illogical.

[SAR526]

No internet user in his right mind would vote for the Coalition on the broadband issue alone. The alleged failings and the relative nation building achievements of both sides in other directions are important considerations, but all Labor really needs to do is to publish photographs and video clips of large bundles of copper wires and terminals encased in ordinary rubbish bags, ripped and spurting water just as they are taken out of Telstra pits (with or without asbestos), and ask if is this is what the conservatives want to perpetuate. We have all experienced or know of service difficulties and extraneous noise on our expensive telephone system due to water-logging of the copper network.

The general infrastructure of this country is far below the standards that we have a right to expect after the sale of so many of our assets to the great benefit of overseas shareholders and speculators. Our rail, road and urban transport as well as telecommunications need urgent upgrading to reach something like parity with what is normal in comparable countries. I have always tried to be as objective as possible in discussing politics, but the past records of the parties in bringing about progress in these areas have strongly influenced my thinking, and those most likely to bring about improvements in this direction will be getting my vote. I think that you will be able to guess which they will be.

[Vee]

Adelaide is a one newspaper city which allows Rupert Murdoch to dominate the local news scene in print as well as radio and TV - which uses the newspaper as a man source to convey 'the news of the day. The Australian is a national newspaper, also run by News Ltd.

News Ltd is fiercely opposed to the NBN which is seen as a threat to its Foxtel business model. The Australian, in particular has railed against the NBN for the past few years. Murdoch has now upped the ante against Rudd to bring down the FTTP, fibre all the way to the home/premises NBN model.

Check this article from The Age which provides an interesting aspect related to politics, media and the NBN, as Australia gets ready for the full on media blitz associated with the forthcoming election.

Murdoch sends trusted general 'Col Pot' to Australia to bring down Rudd over NBN.
The Age 4/8/13
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/murdoc ... 2r6fk.html

Summed up here.
'Corporate Greed at the expense of national infrastructure'
Kill the NBN at its ultimate source.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 413b1b31ba

[Vee]

Big news on the ISP front, especially for SA.
The ACC blocked the Telstra bid to acquire internet provider, Adam, over market concerns. This has allowed iiNet to step in to buy Adam for $60 million.

Adam has a loyal following of 70,000 subscribers from SA and the NT. Adding these to their existing subscriber base, iiNet will service approx 900,000 users (second largest DSL provider in Australia).

The Australian (Business)
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busines ... 6691292094

[Howie]

wow so iinet now owns both SA's homegrown ISP's.. internode and Adam.

[monotonehell]

wow so iinet now owns both SA's homegrown ISP's.. internode and Adam.

Let's hope iiNet doesn't turn evil (like Google has in the US).

[Aidan]

wow so iinet now owns both SA's homegrown ISP's.. internode and Adam.

And a lot more than that! In the mid '90s there were lots of SA homegrown ISPs - partly because the market leader (Ozemail) was charging very high prices. Smaller cheaper ISPs sprang up in shops and backyard sheds, but few made much profit because Telstra was ripping them off with high data charges! Eventually small ISPs were absorbed by iinet, or by ISPs that were absorbed by iinet. Even Ozemail, by then a shadow of its former self, was taken over by iinet. Adam and Internode are just the latest two, though having survived so long their brands are unlikely to disappear in a hurry.

[monotonehell]

wow so iinet now owns both SA's homegrown ISP's.. internode and Adam.

And a lot more than that! In the mid '90s there were lots of SA homegrown ISPs - partly because the market leader (Ozemail) was charging very high prices. Smaller cheaper ISPs sprang up in shops and backyard sheds, but few made much profit because Telstra was ripping them off with high data charges! Eventually small ISPs were absorbed by iinet, or by ISPs that were absorbed by iinet. Even Ozemail, by then a shadow of its former self, was taken over by iinet. Adam and Internode are just the latest two, though having survived so long their brands are unlikely to disappear in a hurry.

AFAIR, Adam was the first. I had Internet access through them before the Web was popular.

When I were lad, all of this were (display string) fields...

[serca]

I have been told from a good source that this project has blown out massively !!! Maybe even a Primary contractor in the red 10's of millions ...... other subcontractors have had their contracts terminated, resulting in a lot of people out of work.

[monotonehell]

I have been told from a good source that this project has blown out massively !!! Maybe even a Primary contractor in the red 10's of millions ...... other subcontractors have had their contracts terminated, resulting in a lot of people out of work.

It's hardly a secret. It was all over the news last week. Badly drawn cheap contracts between contractors and subcontractors, coupled with the delays of work due to inadequate asbestos training, have seen a lot of cash flow problems so many subcontractors aren't being paid.