PRO: Port Adelaide Tramline | $260m

[Froggy]

Oh and I'm pretty sure concrete sleepers are used everywhere now due to cost and benefits?

[Tom]

Oh and I'm pretty sure concrete sleepers are used everywhere now due to cost and benefits?

So Mr. Froggy.... being the OH line user as you say you are, surely you would know that the line already has Gauge Convertible Sleepers and they are concrete would you believe. The Grange line needs upgrading and that’s pretty much it, the rest of the OH line is in a better standard then most of Melbourne or Sydney’s Railway lines. The only problem is platform clearance at Bowden and Alberton stations as these stations and platforms are the originals from when the line was opened 151 years, 2 months 44 days ago. Unfortunately railcars are a little wider then our original carriages and 3 locomotives named "Adelaide" "Victoria" and "Albert" from all those days ago, so to ensure railcars don’t swipe the edges of the platforms that can’t be touched to due to heritage reasons trains slow down to 40km/h or 25km/h the exact speed I'm not too sure at this time. So there is no need to complain as you ride upon the best track in Adelaide. The Noarlunga and Belair lines are more in need and they have got the funding.

[Norman]

And what of those commuters between Port Adelaide and Outer Harbor? All the new apartments on the other side of the river are right on top of the existing stations.

They can do it like in Germany where they have a dual-gague line... one for the tram and one for the train, like this:

|..|.............|
1..2.............3

1. Train left wheel
2. Tram left wheel
3. All right wheel

The train can then go express to Port Adelaide and then all stations to Outer Harbour. It will also be easier on weekends, where more people will go City-Port Adelaide than the full distance to Outer Harbour, so more tram services can be used than trains.

[Froggy]

Oh and I'm pretty sure concrete sleepers are used everywhere now due to cost and benefits?

So Mr. Froggy.... being the OH line user as you say you are, surely you would know that the line already has Gauge Convertible Sleepers and they are concrete would you believe. The Grange line needs upgrading and that’s pretty much it, the rest of the OH line is in a better standard then most of Melbourne or Sydney’s Railway lines. The only problem is platform clearance at Bowden and Alberton stations as these stations and platforms are the originals from when the line was opened 151 years, 2 months 44 days ago. Unfortunately railcars are a little wider then our original carriages and 3 locomotives named "Adelaide" "Victoria" and "Albert" from all those days ago, so to ensure railcars don’t swipe the edges of the platforms that can’t be touched to due to heritage reasons trains slow down to 40km/h or 25km/h the exact speed I'm not too sure at this time. So there is no need to complain as you ride upon the best track in Adelaide. The Noarlunga and Belair lines are more in need and they have got the funding.

Mate I'm no train freak nor do i pretend to be. Thanks for the history lesson there but didn't I state that I think they use concrete sleepers everywhere now? Comprehension is your friend. I think if they upgraded the rail network to be electric we'd have a much better railway network, that's the sort of desperat upgrade that it needs.

[jimmy_2486]

I'd like to see the state shift its focus onto heavy rail. It's faster, can move more pax per vehicle and is immune to traffic. Why build a new rail network when we already have one that could be upgraded?

You dont need heavy rail just to go 15km to pt adelaide. besides they got heavy rail going to outer harbour that goes through pt adelaide anyway.

heavy rail should be only for north south.....and if they can do it fast enough....east into the hills.

Light rail should be good for inner suburbs....its no different from having an express bus lane.

[jimmy_2486]

Now I have to say that pt Adelaide is in the inner-mid metro area and doesn't really need heavy rail, but it does only due to the fact that outer harbor area needs it.

Look at Glenelg, same distance kinda from city, people are very happy with the service the trams are giving, it takes roughly half hour which is reasonable, and if they use the middle of port road for the track then trams will fly into the city just like glenelgs. The beauty of trams are that there will be what 4-5 stops in the city instead of 1 heavy rail station in the city so trams will take u to more parts of the city. Now the grange line is a waste of money, hardly anyone uses it, and id say replacing that with a tram service is better as it is cheaper to run.

Id like to see the whole inner 10km with trams going everywhere. with heavy rail being used for PT users outside that reigon...eg north south and hills (if they can get the trains running fast enough through the hills)

[AG]

Now I have to say that pt Adelaide is in the inner-mid metro area and doesn't really need heavy rail, but it does only due to the fact that outer harbor area needs it.

Look at Glenelg, same distance kinda from city, people are very happy with the service the trams are giving, it takes roughly half hour which is reasonable, and if they use the middle of port road for the track then trams will fly into the city just like glenelgs. The beauty of trams are that there will be what 4-5 stops in the city instead of 1 heavy rail station in the city so trams will take u to more parts of the city. Now the grange line is a waste of money, hardly anyone uses it, and id say replacing that with a tram service is better as it is cheaper to run.

Id like to see the whole inner 10km with trams going everywhere. with heavy rail being used for PT users outside that reigon...eg north south and hills (if they can get the trains running fast enough through the hills)

The reason the Glenelg tram line corridor works successfully is because the corridor gives trams complete right of way between Greenhill Road at Hyde Park and Brighton Road at Glenelg East. This is the reason why this tram line wasn't torn up during the 1950s in the first place. In the case of running trams along the Port Road corridor, the type of fast operation seen with the Glenelg tram line would not be possible without continuously building overpasses and underpasses, since many busy roads cross Port Road. This is important because queues of cars often sit in the section between the two halves of Port Road at places such as South Road, Woodville Road and Cheltenham Parade. What route would the tram take between Adam Street and the City? The smallest details always seem to get missed, and they are often some of the most important.

The Grange line is poorly patronised because there are no interchanges or major stations along this branch line, the same problem as the Alamein line in Melbourne or the Doomben line in Brisbane. There used to be a line which ran out from Albert Park called the Hendon line, which shut and was torn up years ago. IMO I think the Grange line needs to be rediverted beyond Albert Park to West Lakes (where a bus interchange already exists), possibly using a viaduct in a similar fashion to the way the Airport rail link to Brisbane Airport was constructed, and duplicated for at least some of it's length.

Just because areas are close to the city doesn't mean that they don't need heavy rail. The city isn't the only place people travel to, some people travel outbound from these stations as well. Some of the busiest stations on many heavy rail networks are inner city stations because they serve business districts or serve as interchanges between numerous rail lines. In the case of Port Adelaide (I know it isn't inner city), the station is close to a retail and business district, but it is poorly maintained and doesn't link well with the surrounding area. In recent years other cities have seen these sorts of stations redeveloped to improve their function and linkage, such as Parramatta and Chatswood in Sydney and Box Hill in Melbourne.

[jimmy_2486]

Well if you reckon working light rail on the port rd corridor is too much work, why not make it run along side the outer harbor line?? Then once it hits say hawker st it could go back on road and join up onto north tce tram line through port road or even through North Adelaide!!!

You could then replace the grange line branch to be fully light rail as well as continue the light rail to pt Adelaide (along side the heavy rail). It would be a cost effective idea as no one really uses those trains and further extensions from the grange (new light rail line) could be brought into west lakes mall/aami stadium. I mean light rail is easier to maintain and i never see more then 2 cars on that grange line anyways so might as well make it light rail.

I'm only making suggestions here and not criticizing anyone else's ideas... any thoughts?

[Cruise]

Whats wrong with changing the guage of the the existing lines and running trams down the existing corridor?

[jimmy_2486]

Whats wrong with changing the guage of the the existing lines and running trams down the existing corridor?

True very good point....

What about once the grange line hits the outer harbor line? it would have to run next to it unless they modify it so both trains and trams can use it??

I'm not saying to have no trains running north west at all. I believe a train is needed to goto outer harbor, but port Adelaide and especially grange need to look at being replaced by light rail systems.

If anything port Adelaide would be the least to need it but grange and west lakes would definitely need it. Maybe port Adelaide could have both light rail going to pt adel only, and heavy rail going all the way to outer harbor.

[jk1237]

I must admit that despite the Outer Harbor/Grange line being poorly used, changing the line into light rail is not a priority at the moment. What is a priority is to upgrade the train stations to a acceptable standard. Except for Woodville, every station along that line is a disgrace and they look like they havent been in use for 30 years. How are you going to attract people to use a system where the stations are nothing more than a mound of bitumen with a bus shelter and are deserted. The smell of urine at Bowden is just awful. What we need are more station upgrades like Mawson Lakes and the new Oaklands Interchange. Just look at Glanville. Its meant to be a interchange for the Lefevre Peninsula buses, but its just 2 bus shelters for a station. It would also be interesting once the new housing around Ethelton/Glanville stations are finished, we might see a rise in the use of that line. Also replacing a few windows on the 3000 trains wont go astray

[jimmy_2486]

Yes if we were to convert the grange line to light rail, we must also upgrade the stops also. All of our stops are substandard and look like country town freight line stations. They could be done at the same time.

If you were to look at the plans, i'm pretty sure they will be replacing the grange train with light rail, so they SHOULD also upgrade the stops.

I'm not too sure if they will also replace the whole outer harbor line to light rail. However looking at the way they are doing it I believe it will be worse in 1 way and better in another way. The con is that time to head to the city will increase by probably 5-10 min, but the pro is that the outer harbor/grange line will be able to go to more places in the city and not just the train station.

I mean those lines aren't long enough to benefit heavy rail anyway, leave heavy rail for noarlunga/gawler. Also if they are both converted to light rail then there will be more platforms for noarlunga/gawler lines which can possibly increase their services and not clog up the railway station. I hope to see possible tonsly running light rail also, and going to flinders etc.

[Norman]

Yes if we were to convert the grange line to light rail, we must also upgrade the stops also. All of our stops are substandard and look like country town freight line stations. They could be done at the same time.

If you were to look at the plans, i'm pretty sure they will be replacing the grange train with light rail, so they SHOULD also upgrade the stops.

I'm not too sure if they will also replace the whole outer harbor line to light rail. However looking at the way they are doing it I believe it will be worse in 1 way and better in another way. The con is that time to head to the city will increase by probably 5-10 min, but the pro is that the outer harbor/grange line will be able to go to more places in the city and not just the train station.

I mean those lines aren't long enough to benefit heavy rail anyway, leave heavy rail for noarlunga/gawler. Also if they are both converted to light rail then there will be more platforms for noarlunga/gawler lines which can possibly increase their services and not clog up the railway station. I hope to see possible tonsly running light rail also, and going to flinders etc.

If you're going to extend the Tonsley line to Flinders, then provide a free and/or regular bus loop from the Flinders Interchange to the Medical Centre, Flinders Uni and Marion. The tram would not make it up Flinders Hill to the Uni, even the buses struggle, and the curves are too tight. Unless you're thinking underground station, which would be cool (a very long elevator from the tram stop up to Flinders Level

Nevertheless, I'd prefer an O-Bahn to Flinders Interchange, because it would provide much faster access to Noarlunga, Marion, Flinders, Blackwood, Hallet Cove... the list goes on...

[Cruise]

Shouldnt the headline for this thread be changed to "Vision"

[Tom]

Hey Froggy, nar Melbourne still has heaps of Woodern Sleepers same as Sydney. Thinking about history, our very first train to Port Adelaide derailed several times getting there and back, most of the MP's got off and walked and or got a coach on Port Road