News & Discussion: Trams

[Patrick_27]

The extension to the Entertainment Centre has been a big success imo.
There's thousands of people who use it to get into the CBD. That's thousands of cars that aren't congesting roads and car parks in the CBD daily.
Not everyone who is using it is parking their car nearby. Many people get dropped off near one of the stops, while the person dropping them off goes off to their job.

So because we don't share your opinion our collective IQ has dropped? Get over yourself, mate. Cars still congest the roads getting to and from that carpark or getting dropped off nearby, I use this section of the tram-line semi-regularly (once a week) and it could just as easily have been another bus route, in-fact there are bus routes already servicing this corridor that better connect with the surrounding areas. Also, let's not forget the fact that people don't pay a cent for using this chunk of our tram network. I'm all for trams, but when you consider that this extension didn't remove any buses from the network, then already that's a cause for consideration in terms of its success...

[rubberman]

The extension to the Entertainment Centre has been a big success imo.
There's thousands of people who use it to get into the CBD. That's thousands of cars that aren't congesting roads and car parks in the CBD daily.
Not everyone who is using it is parking their car nearby. Many people get dropped off near one of the stops, while the person dropping them off goes off to their job.

So because we don't share your opinion our collective IQ has dropped? Get over yourself, mate. Cars still congest the roads getting to and from that carpark or getting dropped off nearby, I use this section of the tram-line semi-regularly (once a week) and it could just as easily have been another bus route, in-fact there are bus routes already servicing this corridor that better connect with the surrounding areas. Also, let's not forget the fact that people don't pay a cent for using this chunk of our tram network. I'm all for trams, but when you consider that this extension didn't remove any buses from the network, then already that's a cause for consideration in terms of its success...

Couple of points :

1). When the trams took over from the free Bee-line buses, patronage shot up. So buses are *not* a substitute for trams.

2). The trams from the Entertainment Centre have consistently good loads. If that service didn't exist, either more buses would be required, or more cars would be on Port Road between Hindmarsh and the City. Those people on the tram would have to be accommodated by extra capacity somehow. They didn't just come from nowhere.

[rev]

The extension to the Entertainment Centre has been a big success imo.
There's thousands of people who use it to get into the CBD. That's thousands of cars that aren't congesting roads and car parks in the CBD daily.
Not everyone who is using it is parking their car nearby. Many people get dropped off near one of the stops, while the person dropping them off goes off to their job.

So because we don't share your opinion our collective IQ has dropped? Get over yourself, mate. Cars still congest the roads getting to and from that carpark or getting dropped off nearby, I use this section of the tram-line semi-regularly (once a week) and it could just as easily have been another bus route, in-fact there are bus routes already servicing this corridor that better connect with the surrounding areas. Also, let's not forget the fact that people don't pay a cent for using this chunk of our tram network. I'm all for trams, but when you consider that this extension didn't remove any buses from the network, then already that's a cause for consideration in terms of its success...

More public transport, which results in less vehicles clogging up city roads, is not a success, because there's also bus services along part of the route?

The government is building an expanded tram network - in stages -. Tram that abruptly stops today, tomorrow will continue on to a new destination.
Suddenly for some it's too hard to grasp. Less taking of Shuzs drugs people.

And no, I wont get over my self.

[Algernon]

I use this section of the tram-line semi-regularly (once a week) and it could just as easily have been another bus route

It's observed the world over in planning literature and statistics that given the same frequency and same route a tram line has around 20% higher patronage than a bus simply by virtue of being a tram. Further, a bus route does next to nothing for property values. Property on tram corridors experience property value uplift. Have a look at what happened to King William St before and after the tram extension. Apartment builds like Vue become viable because of the property value uplift.

The government should capitalise on this known phenomena and use tram extensions to stimulate property values and promote development. An extension along Prospect Rd, Henley Beach Rd and to a lesser extent the Parade would pay back in not just more patronage but flow through to property values, more development and more rates collected.

With regards to the tram extension to the Entertainment Centre and Hindmarsh Stadium... well. I approach it from the opposite angle. Fancy not having infrastructure linking to your largest entertainment venue and second largest sports stadium? That is country town thinking.

[monotonehell]

...The government should capitalise on this known phenomena and use tram extensions to stimulate property values and promote development. An extension along Prospect Rd, Henley Beach Rd and to a lesser extent the Parade would pay back in not just more patronage but flow through to property values, more development and more rates collected...

The govt are aware of this development magic, and are rolling it out where they can. Please see old RAH site + North Tce extension.

[Algernon]

...The government should capitalise on this known phenomena and use tram extensions to stimulate property values and promote development. An extension along Prospect Rd, Henley Beach Rd and to a lesser extent the Parade would pay back in not just more patronage but flow through to property values, more development and more rates collected...

The govt are aware of this development magic, and are rolling it out where they can. Please see old RAH site + North Tce extension.

I'm not entirely convinced here. The extension was primarily to connect the tram to the railway station which is nothing more than fixing an oddity that the Glenelg line terminated in the middle of nowhere. In the case of the extension to the hospital, the hospital was always planned for the site. The tram wasn't a catalyst. And in the case of the Entertainment Centre and Hindmarsh Stadium they've been there for a generation and more. I'm talking about using tram extensions as a catalyst for development, not the other way around.

The planned extension to the East End seems to be a bit of a nothing extension. They're too scared to run the tram to the Parade so they are just building it km by km. Redevelopment of the RAH site was going to happen anyway. But I suppose they see some value in running the tram there so they can flog the site off for a higher price and recoup some of their investment.

Like I said before, lines down Prospect Rd or Henley Beach Rd would really spark the infill development. Cha ching for rates, and cha ching for ticket receipts.

[rev]

...The government should capitalise on this known phenomena and use tram extensions to stimulate property values and promote development. An extension along Prospect Rd, Henley Beach Rd and to a lesser extent the Parade would pay back in not just more patronage but flow through to property values, more development and more rates collected...

The govt are aware of this development magic, and are rolling it out where they can. Please see old RAH site + North Tce extension.

I'm not entirely convinced here. The extension was primarily to connect the tram to the railway station which is nothing more than fixing an oddity that the Glenelg line terminated in the middle of nowhere. In the case of the extension to the hospital, the hospital was always planned for the site. The tram wasn't a catalyst. And in the case of the Entertainment Centre and Hindmarsh Stadium they've been there for a generation and more. I'm talking about using tram extensions as a catalyst for development, not the other way around.

The planned extension to the East End seems to be a bit of a nothing extension. They're too scared to run the tram to the Parade so they are just building it km by km. Redevelopment of the RAH site was going to happen anyway. But I suppose they see some value in running the tram there so they can flog the site off for a higher price and recoup some of their investment.

Like I said before, lines down Prospect Rd or Henley Beach Rd would really spark the infill development. Cha ching for rates, and cha ching for ticket receipts.

100% the tram stop was put at the intersection of North Tce/West Tce next to the Newmarket hotel right across from the old railyards site, because they had intentions of building a new hospital there. That shows that their is some planning and forethought.

IMHO though, they are doing the tram network bit by bit, because of money issues.
I wish they would grow the balls to announce a full extension to a destination, like the Parade, or the airport/beachside.
They've already changed planning laws to allow for higher density developments around the place, so why not capitalize on that with expanding the tram network quicker, so that development and increased economic activity can happen sooner rather then later. It's sorely needed in Adelaide. It shouldn't even be a matter of you know, creating tram only lanes through arterial roads. We can all manage to drive down Jetty Road, sharing it with the trams, I'm sure we can manage to drive around Henley Beach, the Parade, Unley and other places with a tram on a road or two.
The drip feeding needs to stop.
Take a look what's happening down Prospect Road already, and Churchill Road..higher density develoments. Throw a tram line up that way and watch it really take off.

[monotonehell]

...I'm not entirely convinced here...

I think you misunderstood - my example was the currently non-existent extension to East Tce as a catalyst for development of the old RAH site.

I can't cite anything recorded, but I remember the ptb at the time realising that the original tram extension had encouraged development along the then near death route. I'm sure that they have it in their heads that a tram line encourages development. Even if it's only partly true.

[Algernon]

100% the tram stop was put at the intersection of North Tce/West Tce next to the Newmarket hotel right across from the old railyards site, because they had intentions of building a new hospital there. That shows that their is some planning and forethought.

We're a little bit at crossed paths here mate.

I'm talking about using a tram purely as a catalyst for development.

The hospital was going on that site irrespective of a tram extension or not.

[Algernon]

...I'm not entirely convinced here...

I think you misunderstood - my example was the currently non-existent extension to East Tce as a catalyst for development of the old RAH site.

I can't cite anything recorded, but I remember the ptb at the time realising that the original tram extension had encouraged development along the then near death route. I'm sure that they have it in their heads that a tram line encourages development. Even if it's only partly true.

I see you here on this point. I think there is a line of thinking that it will be good for the old RAH redevelopment. But you also can't help but think the government is pussyfooting a little, not wanting to commit to an extension to the Parade, and opting for these piecemeal additions trying to find a way to inch closer 1km at a time.

[adelaide transport]

Unfortunately as has been stated money (or lack of it) is the big problem. The Transport Department(and the Minister)were slack in not properly outlining their case to Canberra for funds for the Tramlink proposal..
They have now had to go back to the drawing board to make a fresh and more detailed submission-heaven knows how long that may take?

[Norman]

The business case isn't done yet, but should be completed soon.

[adelaide transport]

Lets hope they hurry up and get it to Canberra so it can be evaluated ans hopefully funds forthcoming to start the ball rolling.

[Nathan]

New tram stops and extra funding to ease traffic problems announced for North Terrace extension
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 920c42c8c8

ADELAIDE’S tram extension work will begin this weekend with an extra $10m funding for around-the-clock work blitz to minimise traffic disruption.

The Advertiser can reveal the first map of the project with the exact locations of the four new stops.

Transport Minister Stephen Mullighan said night works for the project would begin on Sunday, after the major contract was awarded to Downer York Joint Venture.

He said the location of four new stops would advantage travellers to the Festival Plaza along King William Rd as well as North Terrace stops adjacent to the museum, Adelaide University and East End.

The total cost of the project has been increased from $70m to $80m, mainly to implement the 24/7 work cycle at off peak times, and work is expected to be completed early next year.

“An intense program of works to deliver the project in the shortest possible time-frame by taking advantage of working 24 hours a day, seven days a week in school holiday periods at times when road traffic is at its quietest,’’ Mr Mullighan said.



“The additional funding will also go towards a major construction blitz which will involve more night-time and weekend work to minimise the impacts to peak hour and daytime traffic, and reduce disruptions to businesses and tram services,” he said.

“Given the number of major events occurring in and around the CBD, the South Australian Government’s priority will be to minimise the disruptions along North Terrace and King William Road.’’

Night works to locate underground services and utilities along North Terrace and King William Road will begin on Sunday, along with geotechnical investigations.

RAA Senior Manager Road Safety Charles Mountain welcomed the funding to reduce disruption to motorists.

“We know that major road works projects, such as the current O’Bahn works, do have an impact on traffic movement,” said Mr Mountain.

“The more work that can be done outside of peak traffic periods, the better that is for motorists.

“It will shorten the construction period and allow people to go about their business without too many disruptions,” he said.

“We just hope consideration has been made for residents along North Terrace to manage noise levels and ensure they can still access their properties easily.”

The extra funding will also increase the scope of the project, providing for a major rebuild of the King William Road/North Terrace intersection and providing additional turning movements for tram services to accommodate future stages of tram works.

“In addition, the tram track along King William Road will be extended a further 100 metres north than originally proposed, which will result in improved and safe disability access and enhanced pedestrian connectivity between the Riverbank Precinct and Anzac Walk,’’ Mr Mullighan said. Major works on the intersection of North Terrace and King William Road have been scheduled for early January 2018, to minimise the impact to major events.

[Algernon]

So my understanding is they originally intended to go around the corner on to East Terrace, but now will be terminating at the RAH. Has the Obahn extension put the kabosh on the tram going up East Terrace before extending to Norwood god knows when in the future?