News & Discussion: Trams

[Ben]

Those poles are shocking, this is not a third world country, there is no excuse for the lack of fore thinking here.

[how good is he]

Maybe they thought it could become a tourist attraction, like the Leaning Tower of Pisa...

[rubberman]

Those poles are shocking, this is not a third world country, there is no excuse for the lack of fore thinking here.

Yep. Have to agree.

In response to ho really above, I would contrast the present situation, and the way the government approached it, with the situation in 1909.

In both cases, the governments had old systems (horse trams vs old H cars only to Vic Square) with almost no technical expertise in designing or building new infrastructure.

Here is where the similarity ends. The Labor Government in the 1900s searched round the world for the best they could afford (just like they did later when they employed WA Webb), and engaged William Goodman. This investment in a Chief Engineer and General Manager paid dividends, because within two years of opening the line to Kensington, Goodman had completed 100km of track, built power and converter stations, transmission lines, depot, workshops, and over 100 new trams...assembled in Adelaide. No bendy poles, and nutty centre islands either.

In comparison, we have no Goodman driving this project, and it shows.

Going back to the historical analogy, I wonder how it would have gone in 1909 if the government had said to the horse tram operators: "build us a tram system."? I have no doubt they could have come up with something, but it may well have featured bendy poles, centre islands and been slow and expensive.

Basically, it's a bunch of well meaning people lacking a William Goodman in charge.

[rev]

You guys have raised it with DPTI, they've responded that there's no issue.
Where you guys hoping they would confirm you were right, and they, the professionals being paid to build this infrastructure, were wrong?

Assuming you are serious.

The poles look shit. So there's likely at some point to be shit from the likes of the Advertiser/Indaily. People raising concerns allows DPTI time to prepare answers at their own pace. If and when it gets to the Advertiser, the Minister will want DPTI's answer overnight.

Next, given that the poles are waaay far bent than any known standard allows, it does raise the possibility that there's a structural issue. DPTI says it's all good. However, if something bad does happen, DPTI will have been warned, and cannot expect that people won't tell the Coroner they were warned.

As for being professionals paid to design the project, it seems they are actually heavy rail types designing a tramway as if it were heavy rail. Doable, but expensive and inflexible. I was at the recommissioning of the curve on North Terrace in January. As the first trams went round the curve, they had the tram inch round, and all eyes were glued on the wheels and rails to make sure it was safe. Not one pair of eyes did I see looking at the pantograph on the overhead during the process. Says the lot really.

Ok well, if they are wrong, and something happens, or when the advertiser pick up the story, feel free to email them your correspondence.

[Bob]

If they could adjust the tension of the overhead support wires so that the deviation on each pole was consistent, it would likely look OK.

As it is right now, we have random deviations which results in a scenario of one pole being vertical, next pole leaning half a metre inwards and slightly sideways, the next pole leaning less, the next pole somewhat vertical but leaning slightly sideways etc. Inconsistency in deviation.

If the poles are strong enough as per DPTI’s response, then the remaining issue is aesthetics, so if adjusting to consistent deviation could be done, that would resolve the issue I think. I have written back to DPI asking them if this is possible.

But they cannot be left as is , it is a dogs breakfast in certain patches.

As per the above I sent an email reply to DPTI a few days ago, asking them if adjusting the overhead wire tensions to achieve uniform pole deviation would be possible or not.

I got an email response today that was a reiteration of the first push back, once again their words -

As mentioned , the pole deflections cause no safety issues , nor have any impact on the running of the trams.

DPTI don't seem to agree the differing vertical alignments of the poles are an issue...

[ChillyPhilly]

Don't want to fuel this fire again, but some cracking is quite striking.

[Mpol03]

Striking? It’s fucked.

[EBG]

The answer to the concrete cracking is very simple - install more Control Joints. These are deliberate cuts in the concrete only part way through the slab made with any decent concrete saw. These are then filled a rubber material that remains elastic. These allow internal stresses to be released by forming cracks in these areas. You can see examples of these deliberate cuts in the Scooter guy's pictures on page 201. Obviously SA does not have enough concrete roads unlike Sydney. perhaps the contractor is just trying to save a few $$. This is not rocket Science.

[how good is he]

Yes but more control/expansion joints should have been planned and put in BEFORE the concrete was laid. It’s absolute BS to have to use concrete saws on freshly laid concrete AFTER it has already cracked anyway. That’s not rocket science either ...

[bits]

To me it look like the concrete was poured to be slightly shallow and is then having a thin skin of concrete on top.
The tracks seemed to sit 10mm proud and the concrete looks horrid then afterwards the track is flush and the concrete looks reasonable.

[adelaide transport]

Just been announced by the Transport Minister that trams will not begin operating along the new North Terrace extension till mid-July.

[Eurostar]

Just been announced by the Transport Minister that trams will not begin operating along the new North Terrace extension till mid-July.

The Government should be charging the contractor for every day they are late, nearly 6 months late is unacceptable

[SouthAussie94]

Adelaide tram works: SA commuters forced to wait months to use trams to east end

SOUTH Australians will be forced to wait until at least July to hop on a tram to Adelaide’s east end.

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll said a series of “technical issues” had led to the project missing another deadline.

“The best advice when I first came into this job was that by the start of June we would see trams operational, that has blown out now in this testing phase,” he said.

“We’ve actually found a series of minor electrical faults that need to be dealt with before the tram becomes operational.”

The Government now hopes trams will cross King William St for the first time in July, after the issues are fixed and testing and mandatory driver training completed.

Mr Knoll said there would be a review into why the $80 million tram extension project had taken so long to be completed.

He said he would be meeting the project’s contractors to “sit down and review where things went wrong with this project”, with an outcome expected in the coming months.

“South Australians have a right to know how their money has been spent and why this project has been pushed back by months,” he said.

”It’s absolutely unacceptable that it’s going to take around 12 months to lay one kilometre of tram tack and get passenger services up and running.”

Mr Knoll denied any personnel changes in the Department of Transport, Planning and Infrastructure had contributed to the delay.

DPTI chief executive Michael Deegan was sacked by Premier Steven Marshall shortly after the March state election.

“Michael Deegan was the chief executive when the project was supposed to be completed in March. Unless Michael Deegan was going to click his fingers the day after he got sacked, the reality is he was in charge of this project over its life,” he said.

“The staffing in DPTI has not contributed one iota to this project being delayed.”

Mr Knoll said he had received no feedback that the contractors had been improperly stringing out the project, but pointed to new laws that would penalise construction companies for having traffic restrictions in place for longer than they needed to be.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 76ec5bdced

[rubberman]

Adelaide tram works: SA commuters forced to wait months to use trams to east end

SOUTH Australians will be forced to wait until at least July to hop on a tram to Adelaide’s east end.

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll said a series of “technical issues” had led to the project missing another deadline.

“The best advice when I first came into this job was that by the start of June we would see trams operational, that has blown out now in this testing phase,” he said.

“We’ve actually found a series of minor electrical faults that need to be dealt with before the tram becomes operational.”

The Government now hopes trams will cross King William St for the first time in July, after the issues are fixed and testing and mandatory driver training completed.

Mr Knoll said there would be a review into why the $80 million tram extension project had taken so long to be completed.

He said he would be meeting the project’s contractors to “sit down and review where things went wrong with this project”, with an outcome expected in the coming months.

“South Australians have a right to know how their money has been spent and why this project has been pushed back by months,” he said.

”It’s absolutely unacceptable that it’s going to take around 12 months to lay one kilometre of tram tack and get passenger services up and running.”

Mr Knoll denied any personnel changes in the Department of Transport, Planning and Infrastructure had contributed to the delay.

DPTI chief executive Michael Deegan was sacked by Premier Steven Marshall shortly after the March state election.

“Michael Deegan was the chief executive when the project was supposed to be completed in March. Unless Michael Deegan was going to click his fingers the day after he got sacked, the reality is he was in charge of this project over its life,” he said.

“The staffing in DPTI has not contributed one iota to this project being delayed.”

Mr Knoll said he had received no feedback that the contractors had been improperly stringing out the project, but pointed to new laws that would penalise construction companies for having traffic restrictions in place for longer than they needed to be.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 76ec5bdced

I thought the project was going ok till a month before the election. After that the wheels well and truly fell off.

Perhaps we can start a competition as to what the reasons might be.

My guesses, wild surmises are:

The project manager left, and it's now rudderless, and/or

They got someone in from Sydney to run it...just like George Street.

Anyone want to add their theories?

[SBD]

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll said a series of “technical issues” had led to the project missing another deadline.

The poles bend too much and the concrete cracked because the government insisted the contractors had to cut corners to get it done in time for the election?