[COM] Adelaide Oval Hotel

[Bob]

EPL club Liverpool played AO, seating capacity fully taken up, additional people missed out due to lack of seated capacity. Some concerns were raised.

EPL clubs very financially driven. EPL should be just one example of an annual or biennial event at AO to attract international $$$. But AO cant lure a return event.

Perth tried the same EPL experiment, worked a treat no seat capacity issues there, two more EPL clus have retuned.

Test Cricket – AO was always 3# ground in Australia for decades, since Perth Stadium come along they now get treated as the #3 stadium, what does it mean in real terms? Next summer Syd/Mel & Per all get a Test match allocated in school holidays for the main series versus NZ. Adelaide get one of the two secondary Test matches against Pakistan before school holidays. Can’t see too many Pakistanis heading over to AO but I could imagine quite a few Kiwis now heading over to Perth, more international $$$ lost from an event that should have been at AO.

As I stated previously novelty events are fine as one offs, but where are the international annual events that bring in international $$$, and ask yourself why is Perth starting to lock those events in and Adelaide not? This is not a light switch moment of on or off, this is a slowly dripping tap over a longer period of time that may be allowing things to slip away.

Seated capacity = $$$. That is fact. Ask any international sport team.

A couple of years ago WA was making noise that on completion of their new stadium should a Perth side finish top they should get the GF as they will now have a 60K seated capacity stadium, Koch (PA) piped in and said that if AO was to hold a GF should an Adelaide team finish top, they would need to build a new northern stand. The MCC members went into a spin as Perth and Adelaide potentially both having this seated capacity would be a genuine threat, so they quickly did a deal with the AFL to lock in the AFL GF with the MCG as host for the next 40 years to protect their interest, that’s how seated capacity capability threatens other stadiums economic interests.

The image of the northern end of AO is subjective, as I stated previously some people like it as is and some don’t. There will always be a division for and against, but don’t think the view is as biased as most on here are suggesting. AO has to remain relevant in the long term, novelty events don’t last forever.

[citywatcher]

EPL club Liverpool played AO, seating capacity fully taken up, additional people missed out due to lack of seated capacity. Some concerns were raised.

EPL clubs very financially driven. EPL should be just one example of an annual or biennial event at AO to attract international $$$. But AO cant lure a return event.

Perth tried the same EPL experiment, worked a treat no seat capacity issues there, two more EPL clus have retuned.

Test Cricket – AO was always 3# ground in Australia for decades, since Perth Stadium come along they now get treated as the #3 stadium, what does it mean in real terms? Next summer Syd/Mel & Per all get a Test match allocated in school holidays for the main series versus NZ. Adelaide get one of the two secondary Test matches against Pakistan before school holidays. Can’t see too many Pakistanis heading over to AO but I could imagine quite a few Kiwis now heading over to Perth, more international $$$ lost from an event that should have been at AO.

As I stated previously novelty events are fine as one offs, but where are the international annual events that bring in international $$$, and ask yourself why is Perth starting to lock those events in and Adelaide not? This is not a light switch moment of on or off, this is a slowly dripping tap over a longer period of time that may be allowing things to slip away.

Seated capacity = $$$. That is fact. Ask any international sport team.

A couple of years ago WA was making noise that on completion of their new stadium should a Perth side finish top they should get the GF as they will now have a 60K seated capacity stadium, Koch (PA) piped in and said that if AO was to hold a GF should an Adelaide team finish top, they would need to build a new northern stand. The MCC members went into a spin as Perth and Adelaide potentially both having this seated capacity would be a genuine threat, so they quickly did a deal with the AFL to lock in the AFL GF with the MCG as host for the next 40 years to protect their interest, that’s how seated capacity capability threatens other stadiums economic interests.

The image of the northern end of AO is subjective, as I stated previously some people like it as is and some don’t. There will always be a division for and against, but don’t think the view is as biased as most on here are suggesting. AO has to remain relevant in the long term, novelty events don’t last forever.

Where's your proof Perth is no.3 in front of Adelaide?
Codswallop
When Perth establishes a long history over many years of large consistent attendances, universal accolades for being a beautiful ground with a large social and event status and lauded by cricketers and commentators all over the world come back to us.
Until then you can't provide any assessable criteria.

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[rev]

EPL club Liverpool played AO, seating capacity fully taken up, additional people missed out due to lack of seated capacity. Some concerns were raised.

EPL clubs very financially driven. EPL should be just one example of an annual or biennial event at AO to attract international $$$. But AO cant lure a return event.

Perth tried the same EPL experiment, worked a treat no seat capacity issues there, two more EPL clus have retuned.

Test Cricket – AO was always 3# ground in Australia for decades, since Perth Stadium come along they now get treated as the #3 stadium, what does it mean in real terms? Next summer Syd/Mel & Per all get a Test match allocated in school holidays for the main series versus NZ. Adelaide get one of the two secondary Test matches against Pakistan before school holidays. Can’t see too many Pakistanis heading over to AO but I could imagine quite a few Kiwis now heading over to Perth, more international $$$ lost from an event that should have been at AO.

As I stated previously novelty events are fine as one offs, but where are the international annual events that bring in international $$$, and ask yourself why is Perth starting to lock those events in and Adelaide not? This is not a light switch moment of on or off, this is a slowly dripping tap over a longer period of time that may be allowing things to slip away.

Seated capacity = $$$. That is fact. Ask any international sport team.

A couple of years ago WA was making noise that on completion of their new stadium should a Perth side finish top they should get the GF as they will now have a 60K seated capacity stadium, Koch (PA) piped in and said that if AO was to hold a GF should an Adelaide team finish top, they would need to build a new northern stand. The MCC members went into a spin as Perth and Adelaide potentially both having this seated capacity would be a genuine threat, so they quickly did a deal with the AFL to lock in the AFL GF with the MCG as host for the next 40 years to protect their interest, that’s how seated capacity capability threatens other stadiums economic interests.

The image of the northern end of AO is subjective, as I stated previously some people like it as is and some don’t. There will always be a division for and against, but don’t think the view is as biased as most on here are suggesting. AO has to remain relevant in the long term, novelty events don’t last forever.

Like I said, the majority of people are content with being average. They are content with Adelaide being a big country town, while other cities leave us in their dust.
Unfortunately everyone from business leaders to political leaders are content to sit back protecting their existing status quo.
The argument about Adelaide Oval is just a microcosm of a much larger problem in South Australia.They're all too scared to even admit it. They'd rather keep the blinders on and live in their bubble.
If you think Adelaide and SA are irrelevant nationally and globally at the moment, give it another few decades when SEQ is regarded as a huge megapolis, when Melbourne is bigger then Sydney, and even Perth is much larger then it is today, while nothing has changed here. We will be as relevant as Bordertown. But don't worry, some people visiting Adelaide will still think Adelaide Oval looks good.

You are essentially wasting your time and effort trying to reason with people who don't grasp the concept that we are in fact in competition with other states and cities, nationally and internationally. Just look at the wider picture here, people thrilled with the riverbank redevelopment, people thrilled with minor tram extensions...there's a pattern there.

[SRW]

Like I said, the majority of people are content with being average. They are content with Adelaide being a big country town, while other cities leave us in their dust.

False equivalence. Just because some of us like the Oval doesn't mean we want Adelaide to stand still. We wouldn't be frequenting a development forum if that were true. We just don't have a cultural cringe about everything here being inferior; different doesn't mean worse. In fact, competing with other cities to have a shinier version of the same thing is a losing game. Better to celebrate the things that are uniquely good (until they aren't).

[Will]

The cultural cringe on this thread, is well, making me cringe.....

[AndyWelsh]

They are content with Adelaide being a big country town, while other cities leave us in their dust.

What evidence do you have for Adelaide being a big country town?

[Bob]

EPL club Liverpool played AO, seating capacity fully taken up, additional people missed out due to lack of seated capacity. Some concerns were raised.

EPL clubs very financially driven. EPL should be just one example of an annual or biennial event at AO to attract international $$$. But AO cant lure a return event.

Perth tried the same EPL experiment, worked a treat no seat capacity issues there, two more EPL clus have retuned.

Test Cricket – AO was always 3# ground in Australia for decades, since Perth Stadium come along they now get treated as the #3 stadium, what does it mean in real terms? Next summer Syd/Mel & Per all get a Test match allocated in school holidays for the main series versus NZ. Adelaide get one of the two secondary Test matches against Pakistan before school holidays. Can’t see too many Pakistanis heading over to AO but I could imagine quite a few Kiwis now heading over to Perth, more international $$$ lost from an event that should have been at AO.

As I stated previously novelty events are fine as one offs, but where are the international annual events that bring in international $$$, and ask yourself why is Perth starting to lock those events in and Adelaide not? This is not a light switch moment of on or off, this is a slowly dripping tap over a longer period of time that may be allowing things to slip away.

Seated capacity = $$$. That is fact. Ask any international sport team.

A couple of years ago WA was making noise that on completion of their new stadium should a Perth side finish top they should get the GF as they will now have a 60K seated capacity stadium, Koch (PA) piped in and said that if AO was to hold a GF should an Adelaide team finish top, they would need to build a new northern stand. The MCC members went into a spin as Perth and Adelaide potentially both having this seated capacity would be a genuine threat, so they quickly did a deal with the AFL to lock in the AFL GF with the MCG as host for the next 40 years to protect their interest, that’s how seated capacity capability threatens other stadiums economic interests.

The image of the northern end of AO is subjective, as I stated previously some people like it as is and some don’t. There will always be a division for and against, but don’t think the view is as biased as most on here are suggesting. AO has to remain relevant in the long term, novelty events don’t last forever.

Where's your proof Perth is no.3 in front of Adelaide?
Codswallop
When Perth establishes a long history over many years of large consistent attendances, universal accolades for being a beautiful ground with a large social and event status and lauded by cricketers and commentators all over the world come back to us.
Until then you can't provide any assessable criteria.

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Let me keep this simple – we are talking about looking through the windscreen not out the rear view mirror, Sydney & Melbourne will always be first regardless of what stadiums they have when it comes to attracting major events that leaves Adelaide, Brisbane & Perth competing the next tier of getting the remainder.

In the cricket world Adelaide Oval was the next preferred venue (#3) for many years and has a lot of history - I think we all agree on that, but now Perth is competing and in some areas passing AO. I provided the NZ Test Match tour schedule next summer as one example previously, the next wakeup call will be when there is a cricket summer where only four tests will be played, then one of the three tier two cities will miss out. I would be confident Perth would now get a slot leaving Adelaide and Brisbane competing for the final slot, Adelaide may miss the cut. Then people in SA will be spitting dummies everywhere, how can they do that? Everyone says AO is the best cricket ground in the world, why have we missed out?

My simple point is AO redevelopment was the best thing that happened in Adelaide for a long time, the novelty factor was great for the first few years, however plans will need to be made to ensure it stays relevant in the long term. That must include significant repeat business of annual international events and not only gets bums on seats but get those bums visiting from OS in decent numbers and on a regular basis. Looking for continual improvement is the only way to remain relevant in very competitive environment, best not to dig heads in emotional sand and let the world go past.

In simple attendance record terms, Perth Stadium has already passed AO on a like for like basis across most like for like events in its short history already. Perth is the #3 stadium in Australia for seated capacity. It also has rave reviews – AO didn’t have exclusivity on rave reviews from ex-cricketers or journalists you know.

Maybe actually read and absorb my posts instead of just looking at them. Trying to be helpful here to make sure AO moves forwards, sometimes that will require constructive criticism.

[rev]

Like I said, the majority of people are content with being average. They are content with Adelaide being a big country town, while other cities leave us in their dust.

False equivalence. Just because some of us like the Oval doesn't mean we want Adelaide to stand still. We wouldn't be frequenting a development forum if that were true. We just don't have a cultural cringe about everything here being inferior; different doesn't mean worse. In fact, competing with other cities to have a shinier version of the same thing is a losing game. Better to celebrate the things that are uniquely good (until they aren't).

It's not simply about the Oval, but ok.
I don't cringe at it being inferior because it's different. I cringe at it because it's like a giant country town. You want the bigger population, but you don't want all the necessary infrastructure that comes with it. You want the bigger population, but you don't want to accept that things need to change to get to it.
Rather you think that we can keep going at the slow pace we are, only minor changes here and there, and that will suffice. Meanwhile, we are being left further and further behind.
We are competing..but at the moment we're just making up the numbers. I'll let those on this forum who think they know better figure out what we are competing for, because if I say it, it'll be wrong.

I'll stop there because this will rapidly descend into a discussion beyond Adelaide Oval and the hotel.

note, when I say you, I'm not referring to you the individual, just in general so don't be offended because it's not a dig at you personally.

[JAKJ]

Like I said, the majority of people are content with being average. They are content with Adelaide being a big country town, while other cities leave us in their dust.
Unfortunately everyone from business leaders to political leaders are content to sit back protecting their existing status quo.
The argument about Adelaide Oval is just a microcosm of a much larger problem in South Australia.They're all too scared to even admit it. They'd rather keep the blinders on and live in their bubble.
If you think Adelaide and SA are irrelevant nationally and globally at the moment, give it another few decades when SEQ is regarded as a huge megapolis, when Melbourne is bigger then Sydney, and even Perth is much larger then it is today, while nothing has changed here. We will be as relevant as Bordertown. But don't worry, some people visiting Adelaide will still think Adelaide Oval looks good.

You are essentially wasting your time and effort trying to reason with people who don't grasp the concept that we are in fact in competition with other states and cities, nationally and internationally. Just look at the wider picture here, people thrilled with the riverbank redevelopment, people thrilled with minor tram extensions...there's a pattern there.

Adelaide oval and Adelaide are not average they are exceptional and recognised as such. Admiring Adelaide oval for what it has become is not representative of being "happy with the status quo" or "Adelaide being a big country town". This is the type of commentary I would expect from someone who lives in Sydney/ Melbourne/ Perth and has never been to Adelaide.

Any Adelaidian who has seen what our city has become, particularly over the last ten years - where a hell of a lot has changed, thank you Mike, Jay and co - and is fortunate enough to have travelled extensively or lived overseas would recognise the exceptionalism of Adelaide. Adelaide is far more globally relevant than most isolated metropolitan areas of more that 1.4m people. We are a niche city and need to accept that while we don't have the overall brand name recognition internationally that Sydney and Melbourne do, for the fields that we excel at we are well known (wine, defense, niche technology businesses, renewable energy/ education and research).

Adelaide Oval may not be the biggest ground but it is well designed both aesthetically and from a functional perspective as well as being memorable and unique because of features like the hill and it's riverside/ parkland/ CBD setting. Having spent a lot of time at sporting grounds around the world I struggle to think of many that have been able to achieve a balance around functionality, architecture and character.

Adelaide is not perfect and we should always strive to do better but there are many areas in which Adelaide is globally competitive or exceptional, particularly for a city its size and we should recognise that. We need to recognise that once you go beyond Sydney and Melbourne the second tier of Australian cities sit in the same basket in terms of global recognition. The fact that Perth has 600k more people or Brisbane has 800k more people is a moot point. What do these cities actually bring to the global stage that Adelaide doesn't in terms of recognition? What natural advantages or niche industries (e.g. high quality produce/ wine and renewables r&d) can Adelaide push to exceed these cities in terms of profile and global relevance? Those are the questions we should be asking.

Succumbing to an unfounded sense of anxiety because, for example, Perth now has a bigger and newer stadium and therefore we must do something to AO that would destroy some of its unique character is ridiculous. Optus is a decent ground but has no character and is in an appalling location. AO gets the second largest test match crowds after the MCG for a reason, a test in Adelaide, particularly the Ashes, are a destination event because of the quality of the facilities, the character, history and beauty of the ground and proximity to the CBD and events/ activities. If you ask the average English cricket fanatic about which test they want to go to in Australia, Adelaide is likely top of the list.

[AndyWelsh]

Does this forum post ever have get togethers? This debate over a few drinks would be brilliant!


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[citywatcher]

EPL club Liverpool played AO, seating capacity fully taken up, additional people missed out due to lack of seated capacity. Some concerns were raised.

EPL clubs very financially driven. EPL should be just one example of an annual or biennial event at AO to attract international $$$. But AO cant lure a return event.

Perth tried the same EPL experiment, worked a treat no seat capacity issues there, two more EPL clus have retuned.

Test Cricket – AO was always 3# ground in Australia for decades, since Perth Stadium come along they now get treated as the #3 stadium, what does it mean in real terms? Next summer Syd/Mel & Per all get a Test match allocated in school holidays for the main series versus NZ. Adelaide get one of the two secondary Test matches against Pakistan before school holidays. Can’t see too many Pakistanis heading over to AO but I could imagine quite a few Kiwis now heading over to Perth, more international $$$ lost from an event that should have been at AO.

As I stated previously novelty events are fine as one offs, but where are the international annual events that bring in international $$$, and ask yourself why is Perth starting to lock those events in and Adelaide not? This is not a light switch moment of on or off, this is a slowly dripping tap over a longer period of time that may be allowing things to slip away.

Seated capacity = $$$. That is fact. Ask any international sport team.

A couple of years ago WA was making noise that on completion of their new stadium should a Perth side finish top they should get the GF as they will now have a 60K seated capacity stadium, Koch (PA) piped in and said that if AO was to hold a GF should an Adelaide team finish top, they would need to build a new northern stand. The MCC members went into a spin as Perth and Adelaide potentially both having this seated capacity would be a genuine threat, so they quickly did a deal with the AFL to lock in the AFL GF with the MCG as host for the next 40 years to protect their interest, that’s how seated capacity capability threatens other stadiums economic interests.

The image of the northern end of AO is subjective, as I stated previously some people like it as is and some don’t. There will always be a division for and against, but don’t think the view is as biased as most on here are suggesting. AO has to remain relevant in the long term, novelty events don’t last forever.

Where's your proof Perth is no.3 in front of Adelaide?
Codswallop
When Perth establishes a long history over many years of large consistent attendances, universal accolades for being a beautiful ground with a large social and event status and lauded by cricketers and commentators all over the world come back to us.
Until then you can't provide any assessable criteria.

Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk

Let me keep this simple – we are talking about looking through the windscreen not out the rear view mirror, Sydney & Melbourne will always be first regardless of what stadiums they have when it comes to attracting major events that leaves Adelaide, Brisbane & Perth competing the next tier of getting the remainder.

In the cricket world Adelaide Oval was the next preferred venue (#3) for many years and has a lot of history - I think we all agree on that, but now Perth is competing and in some areas passing AO. I provided the NZ Test Match tour schedule next summer as one example previously, the next wakeup call will be when there is a cricket summer where only four tests will be played, then one of the three tier two cities will miss out. I would be confident Perth would now get a slot leaving Adelaide and Brisbane competing for the final slot, Adelaide may miss the cut. Then people in SA will be spitting dummies everywhere, how can they do that? Everyone says AO is the best cricket ground in the world, why have we missed out?

My simple point is AO redevelopment was the best thing that happened in Adelaide for a long time, the novelty factor was great for the first few years, however plans will need to be made to ensure it stays relevant in the long term. That must include significant repeat business of annual international events and not only gets bums on seats but get those bums visiting from OS in decent numbers and on a regular basis. Looking for continual improvement is the only way to remain relevant in very competitive environment, best not to dig heads in emotional sand and let the world go past.

In simple attendance record terms, Perth Stadium has already passed AO on a like for like basis across most like for like events in its short history already. Perth is the #3 stadium in Australia for seated capacity. It also has rave reviews – AO didn’t have exclusivity on rave reviews from ex-cricketers or journalists you know.

Maybe actually read and absorb my posts instead of just looking at them. Trying to be helpful here to make sure AO moves forwards, sometimes that will require constructive criticism.

This is not evidence
It is anecdotal and subjective

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[rev]

Since the discussion has shifted..how about a semi-permanent north stand for the footy season over the hill?

Russia did it for the World Cup..18,000 extra seats.

And London had a temporary basketball arena for the Olympics.
So it can be done on a large scale.

[Llessur2002]

Why? When the Hill sees larger crowds for footy than for cricket? Where's the evidence that we need more seating capacity?

I don't understand what problem this is trying to solve

[Jaymz]

Ummmmm, liking the banter in here. But isn't this thread sposed to be about the Adelaide Oval Hotel?

[SRW]

Like I said, the majority of people are content with being average. They are content with Adelaide being a big country town, while other cities leave us in their dust.

False equivalence. Just because some of us like the Oval doesn't mean we want Adelaide to stand still. We wouldn't be frequenting a development forum if that were true. We just don't have a cultural cringe about everything here being inferior; different doesn't mean worse. In fact, competing with other cities to have a shinier version of the same thing is a losing game. Better to celebrate the things that are uniquely good (until they aren't).

It's not simply about the Oval, but ok.
I don't cringe at it being inferior because it's different. I cringe at it because it's like a giant country town. You want the bigger population, but you don't want all the necessary infrastructure that comes with it. You want the bigger population, but you don't want to accept that things need to change to get to it.
Rather you think that we can keep going at the slow pace we are, only minor changes here and there, and that will suffice. Meanwhile, we are being left further and further behind.
We are competing..but at the moment we're just making up the numbers. I'll let those on this forum who think they know better figure out what we are competing for, because if I say it, it'll be wrong.

I'll stop there because this will rapidly descend into a discussion beyond Adelaide Oval and the hotel.

note, when I say you, I'm not referring to you the individual, just in general so don't be offended because it's not a dig at you personally.

Yeah, all good rev.

We are taking this thread off topic, but I wanted to note that I completely understand the desire for change -- not just minor fiddling here and there but big, transformative stuff. I fully support that. But the Oval is not the missing or needed infrastructure. It has the appropriate capacity and caters for a variety of patrons; some who like the shelter of the stands, and some who like the camaraderie of the Hill. I accept that one day that may change. We have so many other lacking areas of infrastructure and public policy (IMO, most importantly transport) that make the real difference for people either staying or moving here.

But back to the hotel....

Does anyone think this will actually be built in time?