[VIS] Passenger Trains to Mount Barker

[brizzlar]

The simple message should have been a vision something along these lines:

We want a frequent passenger service from Mt Barker RS to Adelaide RS with a journey time of one hour including a stop at Belair to connect with Adelaide Metro services in addition to stops at 2-3 other locations YTBD between Mt Barker and Belair. On that basis can the government request their engineering resources to review the route and provide a report on what is required to make this possible.

The report would then have to include not only all the rail corridor modifications required but the cost, then this request could be submitted with the rest of the rail improvements needing review for priority status of funding allocation. I will speculate that the cost required will be much higher than people are expecting.

BTW – as before the 47 minute statement is inaccurate, the original daily Bridgewater express to ARS using 520 class steam locos in peak SAR operating condition took 50 minutes. This is the same loco class used by Steam ranger operating in a heritage speed restricted condition, so probably impossible to make the ARS - Bridgewater section in that time, let alone the entire ARS – Mt Barker route in the 47 minutes quoted.

Great idea.

Given how much Mt Barker has grown and is forecast to grow, there is surely a strong case for a rail service to the city. This could be the first proper regional (commuter) rail link in SA since they got rid of them all.

[brizzlar]

am in a rush but the idea is sensational, however i heard an opposing opinion that stated the current freight trains that goes from adelaide already takes an hour to get to mt barker, and then you throw in stopping at every train station, hahndorf, bridgewate, algate stirling etc etc, how long is it gonna take to get to adelaide when by car it probably take 27 mins to get to adelaide on the freeway

can the train go direct from crafers to the city, via a tunnel or via norwood etc etc

In other states, they have express services that bypass a bunch of stations. I'd be advocating for those during Peak Period to get people to and from the city.. in Off peak, you could have services stopping all stations.

[[Shuz]]

we basically need a tunnel from torrens park/brownhill creek up to stirling/crafers and bypass all the blackwood crap lol

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As simple as it is to draw lines on a map, as stated previously, trains need a gradient of 1 in 40 to travel safely at a decent speed. Sure, the gradient can be steeper, but then your maximum climb speed would slow down proportionally. So for every 1m of height up or down, you need 40 metres of track.

The distance between Mitcham and Stirling is roughly about 10 kilometres. That only gets you about 250m in height.

Torrens Park is roughly about 115m above sea level. Stirling is roughly 490m above sea level. That's 375m difference. A straight line tunnel would still fall short by 125m in height...

A ten kilometre train tunnel, no stations, would amount to at minimum $5b to build.

See the complications already... and that's just amateur research.

[PeFe]

How about a bus and high occupancy vehicle lane during peak hour on the SE freeway?

Backed up with surveillance cameras this would decongest the freeway and benefit people willing to use public transport.

[whatstheirnamesmom]

How about a bus and high occupancy vehicle lane during peak hour on the SE freeway?

Backed up with surveillance cameras this would decongest the freeway and benefit people willing to use public transport.

I expect this to be the most likely outcome based on the current political parties - and it's not a half-bad idea

It's a good cost-effective short-term solution but I foresee a couple drawbacks:
* Backlash from motorists being reduced to 1 lane in peak (given truck lane, bus lane, normal lane config)
* No secondary corridor created (given congestion + accidents on SEF)
* Less per-trip capacity on a bus v train basis
* Less opportunity for regional rail/region activation
* Less incentive to work towards rail freight realignment for double-stacking purposes
* Less momentum + public support for rail projects generally

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[SBD]

How about a bus and high occupancy vehicle lane during peak hour on the SE freeway?

Backed up with surveillance cameras this would decongest the freeway and benefit people willing to use public transport.

I expect this to be the most likely outcome based on the current political parties - and it's not a half-bad idea

It's a good cost-effective short-term solution but I foresee a couple drawbacks:
* Backlash from motorists being reduced to 1 lane in peak (given truck lane, bus lane, normal lane config)
* No secondary corridor created (given congestion + accidents on SEF)
* Less per-trip capacity on a bus v train basis
* Less opportunity for regional rail/region activation
* Less incentive to work towards rail freight realignment for double-stacking purposes
* Less momentum + public support for rail projects generally

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

What is the descending speed of buses between Crafers and Glen Osmond these days? Are they faster than trucks, or are they both caught by the same heavy vehicle rules to ensure they have enough brakes to stop at the bottom? If they are the same speed, they probably don't need separate bus and truck lanes. If cars with multiple people go faster than buses, they can't sensibly share a lane without the same frustration.

[whatstheirnamesmom]

What is the descending speed of buses between Crafers and Glen Osmond these days? Are they faster than trucks, or are they both caught by the same heavy vehicle rules to ensure they have enough brakes to stop at the bottom? If they are the same speed, they probably don't need separate bus and truck lanes. If cars with multiple people go faster than buses, they can't sensibly share a lane without the same frustration.

I wonder this also. If they were made to share the truck lane I suspect there would be no time benefit, and may make the bus commute longer overall, or cause more 'weaving' to overtake trucks.

If they can and do travel faster than trucks, they should probably be in a dedicated lane in peak. It would incentivise CBD-bound motorists to take the bus.

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[Spotto]

What is the descending speed of buses between Crafers and Glen Osmond these days? Are they faster than trucks, or are they both caught by the same heavy vehicle rules to ensure they have enough brakes to stop at the bottom? If they are the same speed, they probably don't need separate bus and truck lanes.

So instead of an out-of-control truck plowing into a number of cars at the bottom of the freeway and injuring or killing only a handful of people (not trying to downplay, but looking at accidents individually the numbers of victims have never been massive), it would instead rear-end a bus (or multiple single-file buses) full of people with no seatbelts and some passengers probably standing, causing significantly more injuries or fatalities in the same kind of accident?

A shared bus and truck lane sounds good on the surface, but I dread to think of the headlines...

[rev]

How about an elevated track for the whole distance or sections of it.

[Bob]

Wanted to re-post this from the Adelaide Metro Rail forum to ensure the bigger picture is not lost.

Even if there is a detailed review of 'how' to make the Mt Barker service happen, it would still be need reviewing by Infrastructure SA as to where it would fit in the priority list...

by Bob » Wed May 19, 2021 8:47 am

The real problem is neither the Liberal Party or the Labor Party have articulated a holistic plan for Adelaide Metro rail network and services, and therefore piecemeal thought bubbles, discussions and proposals keep popping up rather than working to an agreed masterplan, regardless of who is in Government.

These elements need to be put into a plan to decide the outcome with a masterplan and timeframes, and those elements that are rejected would need to be identified as such, that they will not be part of the future. Where is Infrastructure SA in all of this – this should be part of their remit, surely?

Would require a decision where the ARTC Ade-Mel rail link goes in the long term so planning for the Adelaide Metro rail network can make some of these decisions around that.

Here is my list that require a decision:

Rail gauge for the network – broad or standard
Level crossing removals
Grange branch line future
Port Adelaide CBD direct rail link
PA to OH heavy or light rail line including Osborne link
PA and/or OH electrification
Belair electrification
City direct underground link including new stations at Hindmarsh Sq and Victoria Sq
Identify key stations that double as multi transit hubs for upgrades
Identify stations for closure
Aldinga extension
Roseworthy extension
Concordia extension
Is rail viable to Mt Barker, if so, how

[NTRabbit]

am in a rush but the idea is sensational, however i heard an opposing opinion that stated the current freight trains that goes from adelaide already takes an hour to get to mt barker, and then you throw in stopping at every train station, hahndorf, bridgewate, algate stirling etc etc, how long is it gonna take to get to adelaide when by car it probably take 27 mins to get to adelaide on the freeway

can the train go direct from crafers to the city, via a tunnel or via norwood etc etc

In other states, they have express services that bypass a bunch of stations. I'd be advocating for those during Peak Period to get people to and from the city.. in Off peak, you could have services stopping all stations.

The line doesn't even go through Hahndorf - after Belair it's just Mount Lofty, Heathfield (gone), Aldgate, Bridgewater (gone), Balhannah, Mount Barker Junction, and Mount Barker. In a reconsituted service I'd argue that Heathfield and Bridgewater stay gone, Balhannah isn't big enough to warrant its own station, and Mount Barker Junction doesn't need to exist because the junction is historical only.

Mount Barker, Aldgate, Mount Lofty, Belair, express to Adelaide is all the line would need to be. The actual problem would be finding room for the park n rides for people driving to a station from the other towns.

[SouthAussie94]

I'd argue that if you're going to spend the billions of dollars to build a half decent and efficient rail connection to Mt Barker, it would be worth having a second Mt Barker station in the vicinity of Heysen Boulevard to take in some of the new suburbia in the area.

Saying that, I don't think a viable rail connection to Mt Barker will exist any time in the next 50 years. The pie is well and truly in the sky.

[SBD]

What is the descending speed of buses between Crafers and Glen Osmond these days? Are they faster than trucks, or are they both caught by the same heavy vehicle rules to ensure they have enough brakes to stop at the bottom? If they are the same speed, they probably don't need separate bus and truck lanes.

So instead of an out-of-control truck plowing into a number of cars at the bottom of the freeway and injuring or killing only a handful of people (not trying to downplay, but looking at accidents individually the numbers of victims have never been massive), it would instead rear-end a bus (or multiple single-file buses) full of people with no seatbelts and some passengers probably standing, causing significantly more injuries or fatalities in the same kind of accident?

A shared bus and truck lane sounds good on the surface, but I dread to think of the headlines...

What prevents a bus from being stopped in the queue for the traffic lights now with a truck behind it? In-control trucks can turn left, right or go straight, so I suspect partially out-of-control (i.e. not able to stop, but with some steering control) truck will be steered by the driver to attempt to minimalise the carnage. This would continue to be true even if the bus was stopped far enough back that it was in the heavy-vehicles-only lane.

[Spotto]

The line doesn't even go through Hahndorf - after Belair it's just Mount Lofty, Heathfield (gone), Aldgate, Bridgewater (gone), Balhannah, Mount Barker Junction, and Mount Barker. In a reconsituted service I'd argue that Heathfield and Bridgewater stay gone, Balhannah isn't big enough to warrant its own station, and Mount Barker Junction doesn't need to exist because the junction is historical only.

Mount Barker, Aldgate, Mount Lofty, Belair, express to Adelaide is all the line would need to be. The actual problem would be finding room for the park n rides for people driving to a station from the other towns.

I would argue for reconstructing Bridgewater, giving the Crafers-Bridgewater urban area three evenly spaced stations between 2.5-3.5km apart. Aldgate can be the "hub" station for the area and it already has adjacent bus stops on Euston Road and Mt Barker Road, Mount Lofty and Bridgewater can serve as smaller "local" stations helping spread the load and make accessing the train easier, and it gives people in Bridgewater a better option than driving and bussing to Aldgate.

Beyond Bridgewater, realigning the railway onto the SEF median could provide stations at Verdun Interchange and Mount Barker Interchange with park n rides and full bus-train interchanges, with optional smaller "local" stations at Echunga Road for Hahndorf township and Bald Hills Road for serve Blakiston and Nairne plus futureproofing for future Mount Barker expansion, the line would then rejoin the current corridor before Petwood loop.

On the map below, the orange line shows the ideal scenario using the current line and part of the SEF, the blue line uses only the current route to Mount Barker. For the sake of argument, I've also shown the Brown Hill Creek bypass and the ARTC main line realigned via GlobeLink "Short South":

• Mount Barker Line stopping at Showground or Goodwood, Mitcham, Belair, Mount Lofty, Aldgate, Bridgewater, Verdun Interchange, (Hahndorf), Mount Barker Interchange, (Blakiston).

• The Overland stopping at Adelaide and Mount Barker Interchange.

[SBD]

am in a rush but the idea is sensational, however i heard an opposing opinion that stated the current freight trains that goes from adelaide already takes an hour to get to mt barker, and then you throw in stopping at every train station, hahndorf, bridgewate, algate stirling etc etc, how long is it gonna take to get to adelaide when by car it probably take 27 mins to get to adelaide on the freeway

can the train go direct from crafers to the city, via a tunnel or via norwood etc etc

In other states, they have express services that bypass a bunch of stations. I'd be advocating for those during Peak Period to get people to and from the city.. in Off peak, you could have services stopping all stations.

The line doesn't even go through Hahndorf - after Belair it's just Mount Lofty, Heathfield (gone), Aldgate, Bridgewater (gone), Balhannah, Mount Barker Junction, and Mount Barker. In a reconsituted service I'd argue that Heathfield and Bridgewater stay gone, Balhannah isn't big enough to warrant its own station, and Mount Barker Junction doesn't need to exist because the junction is historical only.

Mount Barker, Aldgate, Mount Lofty, Belair, express to Adelaide is all the line would need to be. The actual problem would be finding room for the park n rides for people driving to a station from the other towns.

Ambleside station used to serve Hahndorf, although a little out of town, it's the closest the line gets. Hahndorf was named Ambleside between 1917 and 1935.

Balhannah should have a stop as it would serve the entire upper Onkaparinga Valley (where the Mount Pleasant Railway line went after Balhannah junction).

There were a number of other small stations on the Adelaide Metro service between Belair and Bridgewater, too. I don't know how many other small stops were between Bridgewater and Mount Barker, but you definitely missed Mt Barker Junction and Littlehampton.