[VIS] Passenger Trains to Mount Barker

[1NEEDS2POST]

Stop encouraging people to move to Mount Barker and build housing around the existing underused stations. There's plenty of land around the Gawler line that's vacant and could be used for housing.

[marbles]

Stop encouraging people to move to Mount Barker and build housing around the existing underused stations. There's plenty of land around the Gawler line that's vacant and could be used for housing.

Stop encouraging people to move to gawler.

[SBD]

Stop encouraging people to move to Mount Barker and build housing around the existing underused stations. There's plenty of land around the Gawler line that's vacant and could be used for housing.

Stop encouraging people to move to gawler.

Encourage people to move to either of them, but only if at least half the household works in the local area. The SEF would cope fine if it wasn't full of people commuting from hills residences to central employers.

[Spotto]

Stop encouraging people to move to Mount Barker and build housing around the existing underused stations. There's plenty of land around the Gawler line that's vacant and could be used for housing.

Stopping more people from moving to Mount Barker won’t do anything to solve the problems that currently exist. People are already living in the Hills, these transport problems aren’t some projection years into the future, the problems are here and now, today.

We should absolutely be encouraging urban infill around existing transport corridors, but sticking our heads in the sand when it comes to the Hills will accomplish sweet nothing.

[Nort]

Stop encouraging people to move to Mount Barker and build housing around the existing underused stations. There's plenty of land around the Gawler line that's vacant and could be used for housing.

Stop encouraging people to move to gawler.

Encourage people to move to either of them, but only if at least half the household works in the local area. The SEF would cope fine if it wasn't full of people commuting from hills residences to central employers.

All that does is push the problem forward. In good traffic Mount Barker is less than 30 minutes from the CBD by car and 45 minutes by bus. If there is lots of housing up there commuters are going to move there, or people who are established up there will have little barrier to taking jobs around Adelaide that require commuting.

The building of new estates within a catchment that means they will inevitably have lots of people commuting back and forth should absolutely come with consideration of the transport options right from the start. If setting up proper transport options is too expensive to do then poorly planned developments shouldn't be going ahead.

[1NEEDS2POST]

Stop encouraging people to move to gawler.

Encourage people to move to either of them, but only if at least half the household works in the local area. The SEF would cope fine if it wasn't full of people commuting from hills residences to central employers.

All that does is push the problem forward. In good traffic Mount Barker is less than 30 minutes from the CBD by car and 45 minutes by bus. If there is lots of housing up there commuters are going to move there, or people who are established up there will have little barrier to taking jobs around Adelaide that require commuting.

The building of new estates within a catchment that means they will inevitably have lots of people commuting back and forth should absolutely come with consideration of the transport options right from the start. If setting up proper transport options is too expensive to do then poorly planned developments shouldn't be going ahead.

Also, it's always more expensive to build all other infrastructure in mountains. If developers want to build there, they should be paying for the increased infrastructure costs.

I don't dislike Mount Barker or the people who live there. I think most people in the Hills like it quiet. Building a satellite town in an area that's expensive to build in doesn't make sense.

[Spotto]

I don't dislike Mount Barker or the people who live there. I think most people in the Hills like it quiet. Building a satellite town in an area that's expensive to build in doesn't make sense.

Bit too late to be complaining about it now, the people moved in decades ago.

[SBD]

I don't dislike Mount Barker or the people who live there. I think most people in the Hills like it quiet. Building a satellite town in an area that's expensive to build in doesn't make sense.

Bit too late to be complaining about it now, the people moved in decades ago.

The trigger for the development was improved transport infrastructure. For 30 years, the South Eastern Freeway (constructed around 1970) ended at Crafers, and Mount Barker Road through Eagle on the Hill and around the Devil's Elbow was only two lanes each way. It fed into Portrush Road which was only one lane each way between Kensington and Magill Roads. Before the construction of the Freeway, Mount Barker Road/Princes Highway was only one lane each way, with bends (not just curves), hills, towns and intersections. The Heysen Tunnels and extension from Crafers to Glen Osmond opened in 2000, effectively moving Mount Barker another 10 minutes closer to Adelaide.

The trains stopped, because (like everywhere else in South Australia) they could not compete on time or efficiency with road transport, for either freight or passengers. They were built for a different time.

[ChillyPhilly]

Stop encouraging people to move to Mount Barker and build housing around the existing underused stations. There's plenty of land around the Gawler line that's vacant and could be used for housing.

Agreed, but we can thank Paul Holloway for approving the massive expansion after a conflict of interest from the a private planning firm.

Unfortunately the reality is that transport options are insufficient and rail transport must be provided.

As long as there continues to be local failures in job creation for Mt Barker residents, it will continue to be a commuter town.

[ralmin]

The Adelaide Hills Messenger has a new article up with the latest proposal for a train to Mt Barker.

Mt Barker council backs calls for Hills passenger rail with own planning report
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... 48e8b22e08

A Hills council is calling on the state government to investigate upgrading an existing rail line from Mt Barker to Adelaide to provide commuting options for tens of thousands of residents.

A report by Rod Hook & Associates, commissioned by Regional Development Australia on behalf of Mt Barker District Council, found it would cost around $10m to upgrade a section of unused track between the Australian Rail Track Corporation line, which currently goes to Belair, and Mt Barker station, which has a Park ‘n’ Ride stop.

A further $25m would be required for the purchase of new trains and carriages, which could operate across both standard and broad-gauged track on the existing rail corridor.

It’s a far cry from the state government’s $6bn-$12bn estimate, despite the council’s proposal including modern, airconditioned trains and carriages with wi-fi.

With Mt Barker’s population expected to exceed 60,000 residents over the next 15 years, Mt Barker mayor Ann Ferguson said it was time to act.

“Recent South Australian governments have been strong advocates of expansion of the Mt Barker area, having presided over extensive population growth in the area,” she said.

“The disappointing aspect is that the governments have not accepted the corresponding obligation to oversee the development of infrastructure to support this expansion.”

Ms Ferguson said Infrastructure Australia was currently assessing a number of rail proposals from other states but not SA.

“South Australia seems to be alone in not taking up opportunities for developing and expanding rail options in the state,” she said.

While the use of the existing rail corridor is substantially more cost effective than other rail options, it does little to reduce travelling times because of its indirect route into Adelaide.

As such a longer-term solution that could be progressively developed should also be considered, the report said.

One such option is constructing a new, more direct rail corridor from Mt Barker to the Adelaide Railway Station with a tunnel from Belair to Torrens Park.

At an estimated cost of between $1bn and $1.5bn, this would reduce the rail corridor length from 55km to around 38km and provide a one-way travel time of around 45 minutes.

“Rail options exist and can be progressively developed,” the report said.

“It is not acceptable to leave the Mount Barker and Adelaide Hills region southeast of the city with … no operating services beyond Belair.”

A copy to the report has been forwarded to Infrastructure SA to form part of an independent review into future public transport options in the Adelaide Hills.

It will be presented to the state cabinet by the end of the year.

A copy will also be forwarded to Infrastructure Australia to help source federal government funding and support.

[email protected]

The tunnel option sounds interesting, but I don't see how you could manage the gradient in a direct tunnel from Torrens Park to Belair. That's a 214m rise over a 2550m run, making a 1 in 12 gradient. That's far steeper than the steepest grade ever used for trains in Australia. Quoting Wikipedia article Camden railway line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden_railway_line:

Due to the steepness of the ruling gradient of 1 in 19 (reported to be the steepest grade used by adhesion locomotives in Australia) between Campbelltown and Kenny Hill, there were often multiple attempts made at ascending the grade. Passengers would sometimes have to disembark from the train and walk alongside it, leaving their bags on board. When trains could not successfully ascend the hill, the train would be divided and the second half of train (invariably the part where the passengers were carried) would be left standing on the line until the first half of the train had been stowed at Campbelltown. Such delays on the line were a source of annoyance and inconvenience for passengers.

For the tunnel to be steep enough for trains to make it up the hill, it would need to be a lot longer. For example, from Torrens Park if it extended to Aldgate or Bridgewater. Aldgate is a 330m rise over a 11680m run, making a 1 in 35 gradient. That should be possible for passenger trains to climb. Bridgewater is even better, a 1 in 44 gradient. Then it may even be possible for freight trains to take the tunnel, with the added benefit of reduced noise pollution for the people (myself included) who live along the current line. I would love to have the trains in a tunnel and return the existing corridor to the people in the form of a shared path for people to run and ride their bikes.

[mattwinter]

Council's proposal to 'start small' with this makes perfect sense. It wouldn't be a fast journey using the existing lines, but with comfortable trains and things running efficiently it would be interesting to see the takeup. I'm sure it would take a few people off the roads. Even the public transport link between Mount Barker and places like Blackwood and Mitcham would be attractive for some. (I'd suggest stops should be Mount Barker - Aldgate - Blackwood - Mitcham - Goodwood - Adelaide)

[omada]

In terms of bang for buck , assuming the cost estimates are accurate - I would hope Infrastructure Australia would rate this project highly. 35M is chicken feed compared to some road projects floating around. Lets hope this proposal receives some attention.

[Llessur2002]

It would cost around $10m to upgrade a section of unused track between the Australian Rail Track Corporation line, which currently goes to Belair, and Mt Barker station

Can this really be right? I count at least five road crossings which would all presumably need level crossings installed (plus one or two smaller roads which would also need to be addressed one way or another). Surely that $10m can't be inclusive of that?

Might this be the base cost for track re-laying but excluding crossings, signalling etc?

A further $25m would be required for the purchase of new trains and carriages, which could operate across both standard and broad-gauged track on the existing rail corridor.

What are the options for dual-gauge running? I'm not sure of how many sets they'd need for their proposed timetable but again $25m doesn't sound like an awful lot of money for even 2-3 new sets of standard diesel-electric rolling stock let alone something that is presumably quite specialist?

I'm fully behind this idea but suspect the article makes it sound much cheaper than it actually would be to get a passenger service up and running. Depending on who you listened to the 1km Port Dock spur would have cost between $16m and $40m and this is a much larger project than that.

[1NEEDS2POST]

Mt Barker council backs calls for Hills passenger rail with own planning report
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... 48e8b22e08

A report by Rod Hook & Associates, commissioned by Regional Development Australia on behalf of Mt Barker District Council, found it would cost around $10m to upgrade a section of unused track between the Australian Rail Track Corporation line, which currently goes to Belair, and Mt Barker station, which has a Park ‘n’ Ride stop.

Aren't there single track tunnels between Belair and Mount Barker? That would be more than $10 million to upgrade to double track.

[Spotto]

Mt Barker council backs calls for Hills passenger rail with own planning report
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... 48e8b22e08

A report by Rod Hook & Associates, commissioned by Regional Development Australia on behalf of Mt Barker District Council, found it would cost around $10m to upgrade a section of unused track between the Australian Rail Track Corporation line, which currently goes to Belair, and Mt Barker station, which has a Park ‘n’ Ride stop.

Aren't there single track tunnels between Belair and Mount Barker? That would be more than $10 million to upgrade to double track.

I think that specific paragraph referred to the connection between Mt Barker Junction and Mt Barker station, unused for many years. They'd probably need to pull the entire track along that section and relay it from the ground up (and gauge convert while they're at it).