News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

[PeFe]

Excellent explainer article on South Australian retail electricity prices.

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/che ... ectricity/

[PeFe]

New battery proposal near Port Pirie. AGL's Torrens Island battery should open 2023. And Neon have plans for large batteries at Goyder South and Blyth.

From Renew Economy

Risen Energy to build its first big battery in Australia with “gamechanger” Arena funding



Risen Energy will build its first big battery in Australia, after its 200MW/400MWh Bungama project was one of eight tapped to receive funding from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency over the weekend.

The Bungama battery energy storage system project (BESS) in South Australia will be located adjacent to the 275/132 kV Bungama Substation near Port Pirie in South Australia.

The battery project, which is already approved for development and is currently awaiting grid connection approval, will feature grid forming inverter technology – a focus of Arena’s funding round for large-scale energy storage.

Risen CEO Archie Chen says the “gamechanger” funding from Arena has enabled the company to incorporate advanced inverter functionality in the battery’s design, when it otherwise might not have been considered.

“The funding will also enable us to provide the best possible solution for the project and the learnings attained from Bungama will benefit similar BESS projects in our pipeline,” Chen says.

The inverter technology Chen refers to means that big batteries can provide most, if not all, of the crucial grid services currently provided by coal plants, which in Australia are expected to close over the coming decade.

This is a particularly important service for South Australia, which is forging ahead on the path to 100 per cent “net renewables,” and which over the last week saw renewables average at 104.1 per cent of state demand.

Risen says the Bungama BESS will play an important role in strengthening the South Australian energy network and will likely become the home for several other large generator and/or load connections.

Notably, another completely separate solar and big battery project is being developed in Bungama by Toronto-based Amp Energy, in this case with 336MW PV and a 150MWh BESS.

For Risen, while the Bungama battery will be the China-based company’s first in Australia – the project is expected to be operational by mid to end 2024 – it has more of the same in its project pipeline.

A spokesperson tells RenewEconomy Risen Energy Australia has three other BESS projects and one solar and BESS hybrid project along various stages of the developmental pipeline.

The company has also developed two solar projects in Australia, including the Yarranlea solar farm in Queensland and the Merredin solar farm in Western Australia, which it sold to Sun Energy.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/risen-energ ... a-funding/

[NTRabbit]

South Australia has been effectively powered by green energy for a week, with one expert predicting it could extend to a month by early next year.

From December 12 to 19, National Energy Market data showed wind and solar contributed on average 103.5 per cent towards the state's energy demand.

No coal was used during the period, but gas accounted for 5.9 per cent of electricity when renewable sources were not enough to power the state at points at night.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-19/ ... /101788694

[rev]

Great.
Yet we're still paying excessive electricity bills.

I wonder when the preaching about it will stop and we will start seeing what's being preached. If ever.

[SBD]

Great.
Yet we're still paying excessive electricity bills.

I wonder when the preaching about it will stop and we will start seeing what's being preached. If ever.

We still have people complaining that the transmission and distribution networks are not completely stormproof. That requires continuing spending and investment in reducing the chances of catastrophic storm damage. We now also have issues with cables not being high enough above record flood levels, so there is likely to be a push for new, taller poles as well as any flood damage repairs.

The market pricing process also seems to be set up to ensure that all generators are paid the highest available prices. This might encourage more investment in new generators, but it's not clear to me how it benefits retail customers (or the retailers who supply them).

[claybro]

Great.
Yet we're still paying excessive electricity bills.

I wonder when the preaching about it will stop and we will start seeing what's being preached. If ever.

We still have people complaining that the transmission and distribution networks are not completely stormproof. That requires continuing spending and investment in reducing the chances of catastrophic storm damage. We now also have issues with cables not being high enough above record flood levels, so there is likely to be a push for new, taller poles as well as any flood damage repairs.

The market pricing process also seems to be set up to ensure that all generators are paid the highest available prices. This might encourage more investment in new generators, but it's not clear to me how it benefits retail customers (or the retailers who supply them).

Hint..its not about cheaper pricing for consumers-never was....that's the political spin. The pricing is designed to encourage investment by multinationals in new renewable projects. Its also about discouraging fossil fuel generation-even though with current technology, fossil fuels will be required for many years yet. It is also designed to get the consumers to use less power at certain times so then intermittent generation can keep up. Furthermore. the entire network of poles and wires is more exposed to storms, because more power is being transported from many more varied and scatted generation sources over longer distances.

[PeFe]

Its also about discouraging fossil fuel generation-even though with current technology, fossil fuels will be required for many years yet.

Labor and Liberal Party policy to be 100% renewables by 2030....I think it will be earlier.

It is also designed to get the consumers to use less power at certain times so then intermittent generation can keep up.

Its called demand management. Is it widely used in South Australia? I am struggling to think of occasions when it has happened...quite happy to be corrected if someone can point us in the right direction to sources that can be verified.
And....believe or not......demand management predates renewables....yes back in the days when electricity was entirely fossil fuelled demand management was used during periods of peak demand.

Furthermore. the entire network of poles and wires is more exposed to storms, because more power is being transported from many more varied and scatted generation sources over longer distances.

There are not more transmission lines since the advent of renewables (ignoring the current build of the NSW-SA Interconnector) The majority of renewables in SA have been built by existing transmission lines...solar and wind farms around Port Augusta and wind farms stretching from lower Flinders Ranges down to Burra.....all built near existing transmission lines. Same for the ones in the south east. I don't think South Australia is more exposed to storms than 20 years ago.

[SBD]

Its also about discouraging fossil fuel generation-even though with current technology, fossil fuels will be required for many years yet.

Labor and Liberal Party policy to be 100% renewables by 2030....I think it will be earlier.

It is also designed to get the consumers to use less power at certain times so then intermittent generation can keep up.

Its called demand management. Is it widely used in South Australia? I am struggling to think of occasions when it has happened...quite happy to be corrected if someone can point us in the right direction to sources that can be verified.
And....believe or not......demand management predates renewables....yes back in the days when electricity was entirely fossil fuelled demand management was used during periods of peak demand.

Furthermore. the entire network of poles and wires is more exposed to storms, because more power is being transported from many more varied and scatted generation sources over longer distances.

There are not more transmission lines since the advent of renewables (ignoring the current build of the NSW-SA Interconnector) The majority of renewables in SA have been built by existing transmission lines...solar and wind farms around Port Augusta and wind farms stretching from lower Flinders Ranges down to Burra.....all built near existing transmission lines. Same for the ones in the south east. I don't think South Australia is more exposed to storms than 20 years ago.

There is a list of suburbs for load shedding, but I don't think it has been used for several years. The deslination plant and proposed hydrogen plant can be used for demand management, but I'm not sure of any other significant loads that are routinely used.

The transmission failure last month was on the main SA-Vic interconnector, and the main failures in the state-wide blackout were in the main north-south transmission that used to connect the Playford and Northern power stations to Adelaide, so neither of those related to new transmission lines.

Arguably, distributed wind and solar farms lead to a more resilient and robust network as there are less single points of failure. New wind farms provide their own transmission line to the existing grid, and connect at an already-existing substation, so in most cases the transmission network doesn't need any further upgrade outside of that substation.

I'd like to see a large solar farm on marginal land near the western extremity of the network to help with the summer afternoon peak. That would likely need several substation upgrades as the power would flow in the opposite direction, but the farm could be scaled to only produce what the transmission line can handle.

[claybro]

Labor and Liberal Party policy to be 100% renewables by 2030....I think it will be earlier.

Labour and Liberal policy is to be NET 100% there is a difference...is is not possible with current technology to be 100% renewable ie 100% generation 100% of the time- regardless of how many wind turbines or solar panels are installed. -storage is not there yet and will not be by 2030. It is not anywhere in the world-and I cant imagine SA is on to some secret technology that no one else has.

Its called demand management. Is it widely used in South Australia? I am struggling to think of occasions when it has happened...quite happy to be corrected if someone can point us in the right direction to sources that can be verified.
And....believe or not......demand management predates renewables....yes back in the days when electricity was entirely fossil fuelled demand management was used during periods of peak demand.

You might be happy to have your energy use "managed" but large energy intensive industries are not. Backup generation in SA is regularly "managed" by diesel generation-so you don't notice a shortage of power...hardly good for the environment. None of this is advertised by whoever is in government.

There are not more transmission lines since the advent of renewables (ignoring the current build of the NSW-SA Interconnector) The majority of renewables in SA have been built by existing transmission lines...solar and wind farms around Port Augusta and wind farms stretching from lower Flinders Ranges down to Burra.....all built near existing transmission lines. Same for the ones in the south east. I don't think South Australia is more exposed to storms than 20 years ago.

" Ignoring the NSW-SA interconnector" Well that is ignoring a HUGE piece of the puzzle. As Victoria and NSW retire their last remaining coal plants-do you imagine there will be much energy flowing SA's way when there is a shortage?-And when a storm takes out the line again?

[PeFe]

Labour and Liberal policy is to be NET 100% there is a difference...is is not possible with current technology to be 100% renewable ie 100% generation 100% of the time- regardless of how many wind turbines or solar panels are installed. -storage is not there yet and will not be by 2030.

Well South Australia is about to give it a damn big go......storage.....lots more coming soon.......

AGL battery on Torrens Island opening early 2023 (initially 250mw/250mwh,AGL will expand the battery to 1000mwh if they are happy with early performance)
Goyder Sth Neon battery, to be built in 3 stages, final stage will take capacity to 900mw/1800mwh
Blyth battery (also Neon) 200mw/400mwh due 2024 as part of the deal to supply BHP
Bungama battery (near Port Pirie) 200mw/400mwh, recipient of Federal Govt grant, due date 2025 (?)

Also proposed hydrogen plant at Whyalla 200 mw capacity....

To me thats a pretty full on attack towards 100% net if not 100% absolute renewables

You might be happy to have your energy use "managed" but large energy intensive industries are not. Backup generation in SA is regularly "managed" by diesel generation-so you don't notice a shortage of power...hardly good for the environment. None of this is advertised by whoever is in government.

I am finding it hard to find out how much diesel contributes to SA in a given year but I think it 1% or less from the graphs I have seen that have "other" sources apart from wind solar battery and gas.

Demand management does apply to larger companies according to this
https://www.energymining.sa.gov.au/indu ... ls-program

Certainly in the eastern states aluminium smelters power down during heatwaves to alleviate power demands....and that is heavily fossil fuel dependent states like NSW and Qld

" Ignoring the NSW-SA interconnector" Well that is ignoring a HUGE piece of the puzzle. As Victoria and NSW retire their last remaining coal plants-do you imagine there will be much energy flowing SA's way when there is a shortage?-And when a storm takes out the line again?

South Australia has reached 70% renewables without the SA-NSW Interconnector being built and no new transmission lines....just shows what can be done.
The new connector by the way will spur further investment in South Australia increasing generating capacity vastly because there is a potential new market of 800mw via the new Interconnector. More money and jobs for SA.

And if a storm should bring down the major transmission line between Port Augusta and Adelaide? I dont know what AEMO's plans would be? I have not seen any discussion on this in the media or even on the internet....hard to know. AEMO did do trials with the North Dalyrymple battery isolating Yorke Peninsula from the rest of the grid...... I am not sure if the SA grid can be "split in 2" therefore avoiding a total state wide blackout.

[Spurdo]

Can’t imagine many people would be happy to have their “demand managed” during a these hot summer months, it’s quite uncomfortable to say the least, to lose power for several hours during 35+ degree weather. Plus not to mention all those companies being forced to power down every time the renewables can’t keep up the pace, I thought they said we were going to rebuild Australian manufacturing, not destroy the last remaining pockets of it.

[SBD]

There appear to be three 275kV routes between Davenport and Para substations, and the one via Robertstown is double circuit. https://www.aemo.com.au/-/media/files/e ... .pdf?la=en
The one past Munno Para has much smaller supports so I expect has lower capacity than the large towers.

I think the state-wide blackout was caused because there were protective switches with very conservative settings that had not been tested or audited so things disconnected automatically faster than they could be reset when the conductors on two circuits either grounded or shorted when the tower fell over. As I understand it, the generators tripped and disconnected quicker than the failed circuit could isolate and create islands.

One of the points of the Federal funding is to ensure the new batteries have the more expensive/complex "grid-forming" inverters which are required to maintain frequency and voltage through these kinds of events, and restart if things do go black. The Synchronous Condensers also work to maintain frequency in the absence of large rotating generators.

As far as I can tell, all of the batteries are usually maintained full. Does anyone know if one has ever been run right down to confirm its capacity? I've only ever notice short bursts of top up while they wait for a larger (presumably gas) generator warms up.

I suspect that the diesel and gas reciprocating engine plants will last for a very long time if they are only fired up for long enough to prove that they still work as emergency reserves, but never get called on to prove it. Diesel possibly keeps them lubricated better than gas so they need less maintenance when unused.

[PeFe]

Can’t imagine many people would be happy to have their “demand managed” during a these hot summer months, it’s quite uncomfortable to say the least, to lose power for several hours during 35+ degree weather. Plus not to mention all those companies being forced to power down every time the renewables can’t keep up the pace, I thought they said we were going to rebuild Australian manufacturing, not destroy the last remaining pockets of it.

I never said individual electricity users were subject to demand management nor did the link I provided say that....so you are just making things up. Demand manage ment usually refers to large single point electricity users.

And being in a fossil fuel state doesn't mean you escape it either.....
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/subsc ... our=append

[SBD]

Can’t imagine many people would be happy to have their “demand managed” during a these hot summer months, it’s quite uncomfortable to say the least, to lose power for several hours during 35+ degree weather. Plus not to mention all those companies being forced to power down every time the renewables can’t keep up the pace, I thought they said we were going to rebuild Australian manufacturing, not destroy the last remaining pockets of it.

I never said individual electricity users were subject to demand management nor did the link I provided say that....so you are just making things up. Demand manage ment usually refers to large single point electricity users.

And being in a fossil fuel state doesn't mean you escape it either.....
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/subsc ... our=append

Demand management is quite different to load shedding - which is when a suburb is turned off for 45 minutes if there is a real shortage of generation, See https://www.sapowernetworks.com.au/outa ... -shedding/ and https://www.energymining.sa.gov.au/__da ... g-list.pdf

My impression is that most demand management sites are fairly hot workplaces, so if it's 40 degrees outside, it's probably safer for the workers to turn off the equipment anyway. I think the Middleback Ranges mines were shut down a year or two ago, and it wasn't clear if that was for demand management or personnel safety.

[rev]

Welcome to western style communism.
You can use electricity, when we say you can.
Your solar panels, we will turn them off when we decide.

How stupid people have become to accept this ridiculous situation we find our selves in, from "renewables", to the gas situation where gas suppliers are trying to hold the country hostage to keep up their record profits.

Keep voting for the same politicians promising you the same thing every election.
What an utterly stupid fucking country this has become.