[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[NTRabbit]

He can reccomend it all he likes, it's not going to happen. It's not like the idea never occurred to previous governments, the problem is there's no profit in it because everyone will just drive on the existing parallel roads to save a buck, so a private operator won't take it on. I know someone who consulted on some of the stages, the idea was floated and shot down by the operators who run the tollways in the east.

Equally, how well do you think it would go down if a state government tried to explain they were spending more money on enforcement and collection than they were actually collecting when slugging everyone with a toll?

[claybro]

He can reccomend it all he likes, it's not going to happen. It's not like the idea never occurred to previous governments, the problem is there's no profit in it because everyone will just drive on the existing parallel roads to save a buck, so a private operator won't take it on. I know someone who consulted on some of the stages, the idea was floated and shot down by the operators who run the tollways in the east.

Equally, how well do you think it would go down if a state government tried to explain they were spending more money on enforcement and collection than they were actually collecting when slugging everyone with a toll?

None of this is the experience in other states where tollways operate.- Sure, there is resistance at the start, but faced with a congested surface road, or a free flowing expressway, most will choose option 2-yes even in Adelaide. As for commercial traffic...option 2 every time as time is money despite the toll. Re your last comment-this is not the case in any state that tollways operate either. -Yes people are fined if their toll accounts are not up to date, but people also resent paying for parking, and baulk at parking fines...doesn't mean they don't park. I cant believe Adelaide is that different to everywhere else in Australia. Tolls have allowed a level of infrastructure that is light years ahead of Adelaide and Adelaides main road network is a national joke in the logistics industry. As for the volumes not being enough to generate revenue?...not sure that is correct either. Toll infrastructure is now relatively simple and cheap.

[Nort]

He can reccomend it all he likes, it's not going to happen. It's not like the idea never occurred to previous governments, the problem is there's no profit in it because everyone will just drive on the existing parallel roads to save a buck, so a private operator won't take it on. I know someone who consulted on some of the stages, the idea was floated and shot down by the operators who run the tollways in the east.

Equally, how well do you think it would go down if a state government tried to explain they were spending more money on enforcement and collection than they were actually collecting when slugging everyone with a toll?

None of this is the experience in other states where tollways operate.- Sure, there is resistance at the start, but faced with a congested surface road, or a free flowing expressway, most will choose option 2-yes even in Adelaide. As for commercial traffic...option 2 every time as time is money despite the toll. Re your last comment-this is not the case in any state that tollways operate either. -Yes people are fined if their toll accounts are not up to date, but people also resent paying for parking, and baulk at parking fines...doesn't mean they don't park. I cant believe Adelaide is that different to everywhere else in Australia. Tolls have allowed a level of infrastructure that is light years ahead of Adelaide and Adelaides main road network is a national joke in the logistics industry. As for the volumes not being enough to generate revenue?...not sure that is correct either. Toll infrastructure is now relatively simple and cheap.

The important part you mention is this:

faced with a congested surface road, or a free flowing expressway, most will choose option 2-

Many non-commercial users would only pay to avoid South Road if the road was congested, meaning South Road will still be relatively congested.

[SBD]

He can reccomend it all he likes, it's not going to happen. It's not like the idea never occurred to previous governments, the problem is there's no profit in it because everyone will just drive on the existing parallel roads to save a buck, so a private operator won't take it on. I know someone who consulted on some of the stages, the idea was floated and shot down by the operators who run the tollways in the east.

Equally, how well do you think it would go down if a state government tried to explain they were spending more money on enforcement and collection than they were actually collecting when slugging everyone with a toll?

None of this is the experience in other states where tollways operate.- Sure, there is resistance at the start, but faced with a congested surface road, or a free flowing expressway, most will choose option 2-yes even in Adelaide. As for commercial traffic...option 2 every time as time is money despite the toll. Re your last comment-this is not the case in any state that tollways operate either. -Yes people are fined if their toll accounts are not up to date, but people also resent paying for parking, and baulk at parking fines...doesn't mean they don't park. I cant believe Adelaide is that different to everywhere else in Australia. Tolls have allowed a level of infrastructure that is light years ahead of Adelaide and Adelaides main road network is a national joke in the logistics industry. As for the volumes not being enough to generate revenue?...not sure that is correct either. Toll infrastructure is now relatively simple and cheap.

The important part you mention is this:

faced with a congested surface road, or a free flowing expressway, most will choose option 2-

Many non-commercial users would only pay to avoid South Road if the road was congested, meaning South Road will still be relatively congested.

Absolutely. It might be worth paying the toll on the days when the Port Road exit queue extends into the trench, but not the days when it doesn’t. That’s equivalent to the days now when the back of the queue for the Ashwin Parade traffic lights is north of the Port Road bridge.

Assuming the toll is only applied to the T2D section and whatever solutions are chosen to connect Murray Bridge/Mount Barker to the NSM. Would tolls help to build both of the GlobeLink road from Monarto to Truro AND the Short South from Bald Hills exit to Bedford Park?

[[Shuz]]

There is no way Short South will start from Bald Hills Road exit. More likely to be in the vicinity of Mount Osmond.

[SBD]

There is no way Short South will start from Bald Hills Road exit. More likely to be in the vicinity of Mount Osmond.

Short South only works if it routes heavy vehicles so that the do not have to go over the hill at Crafers. I might be wrong about Ball Hills Road, the crayon drawing in the KPMG Report (2019) might be from near Totness Recreation Park between Mount Barker and Hahndorf

[NTRabbit]

He can reccomend it all he likes, it's not going to happen. It's not like the idea never occurred to previous governments, the problem is there's no profit in it because everyone will just drive on the existing parallel roads to save a buck, so a private operator won't take it on. I know someone who consulted on some of the stages, the idea was floated and shot down by the operators who run the tollways in the east.

Equally, how well do you think it would go down if a state government tried to explain they were spending more money on enforcement and collection than they were actually collecting when slugging everyone with a toll?

None of this is the experience in other states where tollways operate.- Sure, there is resistance at the start, but faced with a congested surface road, or a free flowing expressway, most will choose option 2-yes even in Adelaide. As for commercial traffic...option 2 every time as time is money despite the toll. Re your last comment-this is not the case in any state that tollways operate either. -Yes people are fined if their toll accounts are not up to date, but people also resent paying for parking, and baulk at parking fines...doesn't mean they don't park. I cant believe Adelaide is that different to everywhere else in Australia. Tolls have allowed a level of infrastructure that is light years ahead of Adelaide and Adelaides main road network is a national joke in the logistics industry. As for the volumes not being enough to generate revenue?...not sure that is correct either. Toll infrastructure is now relatively simple and cheap.

What else can I tell you, the private toll road operators were engaged in the planning stage (prior to the start of the Darlington section iirc), and they did their modelling and said no.

[abc]

Adelaide people are cheap. If they charge a toll to use this road the majority of road users here will find an alternative route. Only commercial traffic will use the motorway for the most part.

[[Shuz]]

There is no way Short South will start from Bald Hills Road exit. More likely to be in the vicinity of Mount Osmond.

Short South only works if it routes heavy vehicles so that the do not have to go over the hill at Crafers. I might be wrong about Ball Hills Road, the crayon drawing in the KPMG Report (2019) might be from near Totness Recreation Park between Mount Barker and Hahndorf

Sorry, I got Short South and Cross Road proposals mixed up. I didn't realise they were two seperate things.

[SBD]

There is no way Short South will start from Bald Hills Road exit. More likely to be in the vicinity of Mount Osmond.

Short South only works if it routes heavy vehicles so that the do not have to go over the hill at Crafers. I might be wrong about Bald Hills Road, the crayon drawing in the KPMG Report (2019) might be from near Totness Recreation Park between Mount Barker and Hahndorf

Sorry, I got Short South and Cross Road proposals mixed up. I didn't realise they were two seperate things.

Short South also looks like a cost-effective "solution" to providing an alternate road route between Mount Barker and the Adelaide Plains. I wonder if the corridor could be wide enough (and shallow enough grades) to provide commuter rail as well if the urban planning people still want to make Mt Barker a residential suburb rather than a separate city.

[Spotto]

Short South also looks like a cost-effective "solution" to providing an alternate road route between Mount Barker and the Adelaide Plains. I wonder if the corridor could be wide enough (and shallow enough grades) to provide commuter rail as well if the urban planning people still want to make Mt Barker a residential suburb rather than a separate city.

Short South would be a great idea to get the ARTC main line out of the way, but using it for commuter rail would bypass the inner hills where commuter rail is sorely needed.

Re-posting a map in the Passenger Trains to Mount Barker thread to not derail the Motorway discussion.

[rev]

He can reccomend it all he likes, it's not going to happen. It's not like the idea never occurred to previous governments, the problem is there's no profit in it because everyone will just drive on the existing parallel roads to save a buck, so a private operator won't take it on. I know someone who consulted on some of the stages, the idea was floated and shot down by the operators who run the tollways in the east.

Equally, how well do you think it would go down if a state government tried to explain they were spending more money on enforcement and collection than they were actually collecting when slugging everyone with a toll?

None of this is the experience in other states where tollways operate.- Sure, there is resistance at the start, but faced with a congested surface road, or a free flowing expressway, most will choose option 2-yes even in Adelaide. As for commercial traffic...option 2 every time as time is money despite the toll. Re your last comment-this is not the case in any state that tollways operate either. -Yes people are fined if their toll accounts are not up to date, but people also resent paying for parking, and baulk at parking fines...doesn't mean they don't park. I cant believe Adelaide is that different to everywhere else in Australia. Tolls have allowed a level of infrastructure that is light years ahead of Adelaide and Adelaides main road network is a national joke in the logistics industry. As for the volumes not being enough to generate revenue?...not sure that is correct either. Toll infrastructure is now relatively simple and cheap.

Making any section of the NSM within the metro a tolled road is not going to work when there's a parallel surface road right next to it covering the same route.
There's what 5 million people in Melbourne, there congestion they have is unbearable travelling across town. So your best option is to get on the tolled freeway and get to your destination quicker. And even then I've been in Melbourne on their freeways during peak hour and it can turn into a parking lot.
We don't have the volumes or population in Adelaide to justify a toll. We'd probably send the toll company bankrupt.

[ChillyPhilly]

Work has started on the Southern Expressway interchange at Majors Road.

A good read: https://infrastructuremagazine.com.au/2 ... nces-work/

[GrowAdelaide]

Work has started on the Southern Expressway interchange at Majors Road.

A good read: https://infrastructuremagazine.com.au/2 ... nces-work/

Why do they have an image of War Memorial Drive crossing, maybe, Morphett Road??

[Llessur2002]

Why do they have an image of War Memorial Drive crossing, maybe, Morphett Road??

It's Park terrace. Some time prior to 2015.