The Federal Politics Thread

[rev]

Coalition wants to cut migration intake for ‘better, not bigger’ Australia
A senior politician is calling for Australia to slash its migrant intake but refused to answer one key question.

Eleanor Campbell

less than 2 min read
March 3, 2024 - 2:50PM

Australia’s net migration levels are “too high” and need to be drastically reduced to keep housing affordability and rising rent prices at bay, a senior Liberal figure has claimed, while also dodging questions as to what the Coalition wants to see happen in the future.

Opposition immigration minister Dan Tehan said the country could not sustain the 1.6 million migrants forecast to enter the country over the next four years given the current housing and rental crisis.

“When people can’t get in to see a doctor, when we’re seeing cuts in our infrastructure… That is too high,” Mr Tehan told ABC’s Insiders on Sunday.

“What we need is a proper plan when it comes to immigration and set out what that should look like… it’s a complete mess.”

Australia’s net migration intake surpassed to a record high of 510,000 in the year to July 2023, double that of pre-pandemic levels.

Labor has pledged to halve the annual immigration rate over the next two years under sweeping new migration reforms announced in December.

When asked point-blank what exact levels the Coalition wanted to see migration be reduced to, Mr Tehan refused to answer instead claiming the Liberals wanted a “better” not “bigger” Australia.

“We will announce what our better Australia will look like in the lead-up to the election,” he said.

The Albanese government unveiled plans last year to fix Australia’s “broken” migration system, in what was described as the “final piece” in a three-phase approach to building a “sustainable Australia.”

After a lull during the Covid-19 pandemic, record levels of migration by international students, who accounted for more than half of arrivals, led the government to announce a crackdown on student visa rules, which included tougher minimum language-requirements and more scrutiny around applications for second visas.

Home Affairs Minister Clare O’Neil said the new changes will focus on bringing down migration to sustainable levels while also reducing the risk of migrant exploitation.

Mr Tehan said the intake of foreign students into Australia “absolutely” needed to be reduced, calling Labor’s response a “knee-jerk reaction”

“There will be an immigration policy that will be announced before the next election and it will be very different to Labor’s immigration policy.”

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy ... 1f09f9c699

If they can sell this right, good riddance to comrade Albanese.

[gnrc_louis]

Coalition wants to cut migration intake for ‘better, not bigger’ Australia
A senior politician is calling for Australia to slash its migrant intake but refused to answer one key question.

Eleanor Campbell

less than 2 min read
March 3, 2024 - 2:50PM

Australia’s net migration levels are “too high” and need to be drastically reduced to keep housing affordability and rising rent prices at bay, a senior Liberal figure has claimed, while also dodging questions as to what the Coalition wants to see happen in the future.

Opposition immigration minister Dan Tehan said the country could not sustain the 1.6 million migrants forecast to enter the country over the next four years given the current housing and rental crisis.

“When people can’t get in to see a doctor, when we’re seeing cuts in our infrastructure… That is too high,” Mr Tehan told ABC’s Insiders on Sunday.

“What we need is a proper plan when it comes to immigration and set out what that should look like… it’s a complete mess.”

Australia’s net migration intake surpassed to a record high of 510,000 in the year to July 2023, double that of pre-pandemic levels.

Labor has pledged to halve the annual immigration rate over the next two years under sweeping new migration reforms announced in December.

When asked point-blank what exact levels the Coalition wanted to see migration be reduced to, Mr Tehan refused to answer instead claiming the Liberals wanted a “better” not “bigger” Australia.

“We will announce what our better Australia will look like in the lead-up to the election,” he said.

The Albanese government unveiled plans last year to fix Australia’s “broken” migration system, in what was described as the “final piece” in a three-phase approach to building a “sustainable Australia.”

After a lull during the Covid-19 pandemic, record levels of migration by international students, who accounted for more than half of arrivals, led the government to announce a crackdown on student visa rules, which included tougher minimum language-requirements and more scrutiny around applications for second visas.

Home Affairs Minister Clare O’Neil said the new changes will focus on bringing down migration to sustainable levels while also reducing the risk of migrant exploitation.

Mr Tehan said the intake of foreign students into Australia “absolutely” needed to be reduced, calling Labor’s response a “knee-jerk reaction”

“There will be an immigration policy that will be announced before the next election and it will be very different to Labor’s immigration policy.”

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy ... 1f09f9c699

If they can sell this right, good riddance to comrade Albanese.

hahahaha more hollow pseudo-populist rhetoric to win back suburban seats. The Coalition while in Government under Howard, Abbott, Turnbull and Morrison all welcomed high levels of immigration. Howard also helped create the housing crisis through the removal of the capital gains tax on housing, making it much more lucrative for wealthy investors to buy up property in bulk (no surprise that most Federal MPs from all parties own multiple properties).

Australia's economy is based on ongoing growth - partly via immigration, unless the Opposition have plans to dramatically change this model - which so far they've shown no sign of being capable or willing to do, cutting immigration would slow this growth, something no Government is going to want to happen under their watch. Also, groups the Coalition are totally beholden to - the Business Council, the mining lobby, etc. all support high immigration, they're not going to get their main donors offside.

I'm not against a lowering of immigration rates, but it needs to be part of a wider conversation that includes tax policy, etc. Otherwise it's just empty rhetoric that won't even be implemented - i.e.expect the Coalition to "cut" immigration massively, but hugely increase temporary working visas etc.

[Jaymz]

[Howard also helped create the housing crisis through the removal of the capital gains tax on housing, making it much more lucrative for wealthy investors to buy up property in bulk (no surprise that most Federal MPs from all parties own multiple properties).

That is partially true, here is an excerpt from www.austaxpolicy.com that I found...

The 50% CGT discount, enacted to commence in 1999-2000, was a significant tax law change and departure from the original policy objectives of a tax on capital gains. As a result of the policy change, most capital gains of individual taxpayers are taxed at half of their marginal tax rates. The 50% CGT discount is, effectively, a tax rate preference that has existed for some two decades, despite calls for reform from tax scholars, policy makers, and other individuals and organisations. The CGT discount compromises tax system integrity and it has adverse effects on horizontal and vertical equity. Modelling by the National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling (NATSEM) on the distribution of net capital gains indicates that the top 10% of households by income receive nearly three-quarters of the benefit of the CGT discount.

[mattblack]

If they can sell this right, good riddance to comrade Albanese.

Libs can only sell fear. There is no policy that they will ever adopt that will win back enough swinging voters or teal voters when most moderates see this for exactly what this is Honestly when they go about jumping at shadows with a previous detainee being arrested (wrongfully) and losing control of borders after 20 odd people made it to the middle of nowhere most people roll their eyes.

[rev]

If they can sell this right, good riddance to comrade Albanese.

Libs can only sell fear. There is no policy that they will ever adopt that will win back enough swinging voters or teal voters when most moderates see this for exactly what this is Honestly when they go about jumping at shadows with a previous detainee being arrested (wrongfully) and losing control of borders after 20 odd people made it to the middle of nowhere most people roll their eyes.

Most people aren't "rolling their eyes" when it comes to cost of living pressures which aren't easing up but increasing.

If the Liberals can successfully connect the high cost of living to high migration numbers, they're going to do a lot better then what the die hard left think, so much so we might see tears of anguish flowing on election night from the left.
I personally don't think either party will do much to fix the cost of living crisis, let alone the housing crisis.
But at least someone in Canberra is bringing the issue of the completely unnecessary high migration numbers to forefront.
We don't need 1.7 million people over the next four years, what we need is what precious few resources our governments seem to have, allocated to fixing the problems we have in this country already, not piling on more pressure until something completely collapses.

[abc]

yawn

[SBD]

If they can sell this right, good riddance to comrade Albanese.

Libs can only sell fear. There is no policy that they will ever adopt that will win back enough swinging voters or teal voters when most moderates see this for exactly what this is Honestly when they go about jumping at shadows with a previous detainee being arrested (wrongfully) and losing control of borders after 20 odd people made it to the middle of nowhere most people roll their eyes.

Most people aren't "rolling their eyes" when it comes to cost of living pressures which aren't easing up but increasing.

If the Liberals can successfully connect the high cost of living to high migration numbers, they're going to do a lot better then what the die hard left think, so much so we might see tears of anguish flowing on election night from the left.
I personally don't think either party will do much to fix the cost of living crisis, let alone the housing crisis.
But at least someone in Canberra is bringing the issue of the completely unnecessary high migration numbers to forefront.
We don't need 1.7 million people over the next four years, what we need is what precious few resources our governments seem to have, allocated to fixing the problems we have in this country already, not piling on more pressure until something completely collapses.

One of the reasons for apparently-high net immigration is that the foreign students who went home for COVID-19 are either returning or being replaced. Once over, that will return us to the status quo for students.

Skilled migration for areas we say we are short of should be a net benefit - doctors, nurses, aged care, child care, building trades etc. Migrant visas can have conditions about living/working in areas of need/shortage. We can't force the current citizens/residents to move away from their friends, families and homes.

The cost of living crisis is (to a degree) engineered by people not prepared to bite the bullet and propose/bring in radical changes to the tax, welfare and economic control models. The effects are interlinked, but each is managed in isolation - the government "gives" tax relief to a particular segment of the electorate, then the Reserve Bank follows its (government-imposed) mandate to control inflation by increasing interest rate targets in the hope of reducing the spending of an overlapping group of people.

The trouble with proposing any significant reform is that some people will "lose", and get a disproportionate amount of noise in various media. Anyone who "wins" will either keep quiet or be pilloried and cut down as tall poppies.

[abc]

Libs can only sell fear. There is no policy that they will ever adopt that will win back enough swinging voters or teal voters when most moderates see this for exactly what this is Honestly when they go about jumping at shadows with a previous detainee being arrested (wrongfully) and losing control of borders after 20 odd people made it to the middle of nowhere most people roll their eyes.

Most people aren't "rolling their eyes" when it comes to cost of living pressures which aren't easing up but increasing.

If the Liberals can successfully connect the high cost of living to high migration numbers, they're going to do a lot better then what the die hard left think, so much so we might see tears of anguish flowing on election night from the left.
I personally don't think either party will do much to fix the cost of living crisis, let alone the housing crisis.
But at least someone in Canberra is bringing the issue of the completely unnecessary high migration numbers to forefront.
We don't need 1.7 million people over the next four years, what we need is what precious few resources our governments seem to have, allocated to fixing the problems we have in this country already, not piling on more pressure until something completely collapses.

One of the reasons for apparently-high net immigration is that the foreign students who went home for COVID-19 are either returning or being replaced. Once over, that will return us to the status quo for students.

Skilled migration for areas we say we are short of should be a net benefit - doctors, nurses, aged care, child care, building trades etc. Migrant visas can have conditions about living/working in areas of need/shortage. We can't force the current citizens/residents to move away from their friends, families and homes.

The cost of living crisis is (to a degree) engineered by people not prepared to bite the bullet and propose/bring in radical changes to the tax, welfare and economic control models. The effects are interlinked, but each is managed in isolation - the government "gives" tax relief to a particular segment of the electorate, then the Reserve Bank follows its (government-imposed) mandate to control inflation by increasing interest rate targets in the hope of reducing the spending of an overlapping group of people.

The trouble with proposing any significant reform is that some people will "lose", and get a disproportionate amount of noise in various media. Anyone who "wins" will either keep quiet or be pilloried and cut down as tall poppies.

oh boy the kool aid is strong in this one

[SBD]

Most people aren't "rolling their eyes" when it comes to cost of living pressures which aren't easing up but increasing.

If the Liberals can successfully connect the high cost of living to high migration numbers, they're going to do a lot better then what the die hard left think, so much so we might see tears of anguish flowing on election night from the left.
I personally don't think either party will do much to fix the cost of living crisis, let alone the housing crisis.
But at least someone in Canberra is bringing the issue of the completely unnecessary high migration numbers to forefront.
We don't need 1.7 million people over the next four years, what we need is what precious few resources our governments seem to have, allocated to fixing the problems we have in this country already, not piling on more pressure until something completely collapses.

One of the reasons for apparently-high net immigration is that the foreign students who went home for COVID-19 are either returning or being replaced. Once over, that will return us to the status quo for students.

Skilled migration for areas we say we are short of should be a net benefit - doctors, nurses, aged care, child care, building trades etc. Migrant visas can have conditions about living/working in areas of need/shortage. We can't force the current citizens/residents to move away from their friends, families and homes.

The cost of living crisis is (to a degree) engineered by people not prepared to bite the bullet and propose/bring in radical changes to the tax, welfare and economic control models. The effects are interlinked, but each is managed in isolation - the government "gives" tax relief to a particular segment of the electorate, then the Reserve Bank follows its (government-imposed) mandate to control inflation by increasing interest rate targets in the hope of reducing the spending of an overlapping group of people.

The trouble with proposing any significant reform is that some people will "lose", and get a disproportionate amount of noise in various media. Anyone who "wins" will either keep quiet or be pilloried and cut down as tall poppies.

oh boy the kool aid is strong in this one

Ahuh.

So you believe that we have sufficient builders, doctors nurses, childare workers, aged care workers etc to meet our current and ongoing needs as long as we don't import extra students or workers?

Why do we appear to need to book weeks in advance for doctors, if we can find one at all outside the cities; why do ambulances need to wait to unload, and why do people say there's a housing crisis? In your world, all these skilled workers are waiting to meet the need.

Who's up for simplifying the interaction between the welfare and tax systems, or is it just fine in your world?

I don't think it's just me on the Kool Aid.

[rhino]

Skilled migration for areas we say we are short of should be a net benefit - doctors, nurses, aged care, child care, building trades etc. Migrant visas can have conditions about living/working in areas of need/shortage. We can't force the current citizens/residents to move away from their friends, families and homes.

The cost of living crisis is (to a degree) engineered by people not prepared to bite the bullet and propose/bring in radical changes to the tax, welfare and economic control models. The effects are interlinked, but each is managed in isolation - the government "gives" tax relief to a particular segment of the electorate, then the Reserve Bank follows its (government-imposed) mandate to control inflation by increasing interest rate targets in the hope of reducing the spending of an overlapping group of people.

The trouble with proposing any significant reform is that some people will "lose", and get a disproportionate amount of noise in various media. Anyone who "wins" will either keep quiet or be pilloried and cut down as tall poppies.

/\ /\ /\ This. 100%

[rev]

One of the reasons for apparently-high net immigration is that the foreign students who went home for COVID-19 are either returning or being replaced. Once over, that will return us to the status quo for students.

Skilled migration for areas we say we are short of should be a net benefit - doctors, nurses, aged care, child care, building trades etc. Migrant visas can have conditions about living/working in areas of need/shortage. We can't force the current citizens/residents to move away from their friends, families and homes.

The cost of living crisis is (to a degree) engineered by people not prepared to bite the bullet and propose/bring in radical changes to the tax, welfare and economic control models. The effects are interlinked, but each is managed in isolation - the government "gives" tax relief to a particular segment of the electorate, then the Reserve Bank follows its (government-imposed) mandate to control inflation by increasing interest rate targets in the hope of reducing the spending of an overlapping group of people.

The trouble with proposing any significant reform is that some people will "lose", and get a disproportionate amount of noise in various media. Anyone who "wins" will either keep quiet or be pilloried and cut down as tall poppies.

oh boy the kool aid is strong in this one

Ahuh.

So you believe that we have sufficient builders, doctors nurses, childare workers, aged care workers etc to meet our current and ongoing needs as long as we don't import extra students or workers?

Why do we appear to need to book weeks in advance for doctors, if we can find one at all outside the cities; why do ambulances need to wait to unload, and why do people say there's a housing crisis? In your world, all these skilled workers are waiting to meet the need.

Who's up for simplifying the interaction between the welfare and tax systems, or is it just fine in your world?

I don't think it's just me on the Kool Aid.

So do you believe that every new migrant is a doctor/builder/ childcare worker/ aged care worker etc?

Can you tell us how many of each we need? And how many of each of the 500,000-600,000~ migrants in the last 12 months fall into those categories?


Reality is most are unskilled/uneducated and end up working Uber, cleaners etc. Hardly what this country is more in need of.

[rhino]

So do you believe that every new migrant is a doctor/builder/ childcare worker/ aged care worker etc?

Can you tell us how many of each we need? And how many of each of the 500,000-600,000~ migrants in the last 12 months fall into those categories?


Reality is most are unskilled/uneducated and end up working Uber, cleaners etc. Hardly what this country is more in need of.
[/quote]

Skilled migration for areas we say we are short of should be a net benefit - doctors, nurses, aged care, child care, building trades etc. Migrant visas can have conditions about living/working in areas of need/shortage.

SBD is not saying we've got it right, he's explaining what it should be like.

[SBD]

So do you believe that every new migrant is a doctor/builder/ childcare worker/ aged care worker etc?

Can you tell us how many of each we need? And how many of each of the 500,000-600,000~ migrants in the last 12 months fall into those categories?


Reality is most are unskilled/uneducated and end up working Uber, cleaners etc. Hardly what this country is more in need of.

Skilled migration for areas we say we are short of should be a net benefit - doctors, nurses, aged care, child care, building trades etc. Migrant visas can have conditions about living/working in areas of need/shortage.

SBD is not saying we've got it right, he's explaining what it should be like.
[/quote]
Thanks Rhino.

I have no idea what the numbers are, or whether they match up.

I do know that when I visit an aged care home, a lot of the staff look and sound like Asian immigrants. I haven't asked if they are, nor when they came (maybe they were born here but their parents passed on a strong accent). I find it much easier to get a prompt doctor appointment with someone who also (natively) speaks Hindi, Urdu, Arabic, Farsi, Chinese etc than it is to get a doctor with an Australian accent.

We do need cleaners and taxi drivers. I have no idea if we have "enough" of those either. At the demographic level, it doesn't matter if we train a bricklayer and import a cleaner or train a cleaner and import a bricklayer. Even the police are talking about foreign recruitment.

This is the Federal Politics thread. We need to have policy settings to ensure that services are available away from the big cities. One possible way of influencing that is targeted immigration and visa conditions. It may be easier to recruit someone from overseas and put a visa condition that they must live and work at least 300km from a major city than it is to recruit people from those cities and expect them to move away.The migrants have already made the decision to move away from their familiar places.

[mattblack]

If they can sell this right, good riddance to comrade Albanese.

Libs can only sell fear. There is no policy that they will ever adopt that will win back enough swinging voters or teal voters when most moderates see this for exactly what this is Honestly when they go about jumping at shadows with a previous detainee being arrested (wrongfully) and losing control of borders after 20 odd people made it to the middle of nowhere most people roll their eyes.

Most people aren't "rolling their eyes" when it comes to cost of living pressures which aren't easing up but increasing.

Detainees or the odd boat of desperate people is not going to make a speck of difference to your cost of living argument. This race to the bottom by some is what people of all political persuasions should be lambasting.

Immigration, along with other national priority policies should be bi-partisan for the most part instead of this cheap point scoring and scaremongering.

[rev]

Libs can only sell fear. There is no policy that they will ever adopt that will win back enough swinging voters or teal voters when most moderates see this for exactly what this is Honestly when they go about jumping at shadows with a previous detainee being arrested (wrongfully) and losing control of borders after 20 odd people made it to the middle of nowhere most people roll their eyes.

Most people aren't "rolling their eyes" when it comes to cost of living pressures which aren't easing up but increasing.

Detainees or the odd boat of desperate people is not going to make a speck of difference to your cost of living argument. This race to the bottom by some is what people of all political persuasions should be lambasting.

Immigration, along with other national priority policies should be bi-partisan for the most part instead of this cheap point scoring and scaremongering.

Not sure you're quite on the same page as everyone else, but nobody is discussing illegal immigration.