News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[rubberman]

There's already a railway line/corridor through Two Wells. It's only single track and standard gauge, owned/operated by ARTC. I wonder if ARTC could be negotiated with for the SA government to duplicate the track in exchange for access rights. Sidings near major stations could enable the competing timetable requirements of faster railcars and slower freight trains.

Bridges between Osborne and St Kilda look interesting, but not practical while we only have that one port area on the eastern side of Gulf St Vincent. There aren't really many alternative sites for a major deep-water port.

I tend to agree. However, I don't think that the bridgeworks need be as expensive as people imagine. After all, the St K boat ramp was done pretty cheaply, and it goes quite a long way. So, the actual bridgeworks definitely required is considerably shorter. Which means it ought, at least be considered as a possibility, rather than discarded without even basic cost:benefit analysis. The issue is that we shouldn't close off our options too early.

However, if the Outer Harbor line heavy rail extension is ruled out, then conversion to light rail has to be on the cards. Based on Canberra performance, you can run a Canberra type operation to Port Adelaide at the same overall speed with two more stops. That's an immediate bonus for way less money on the face of it. Again, given this, we shouldn't close off our options and just mindlessly replace heavy rail with more heavy rail if a better option is available.

[MT269]

It was a mistake to place the stations so closely in the first place. The same with the Seaford line. They should be placed about 1.5 - 2kms apart. The Holdens station on the former Henley Beach line was barely 300 metre apart.

Now one is stuck with this set up, due to it being politically unfavourable to close any stations. If the OH line had reasonable distance between stations, it would be a 30 minute trip to the CBD at most. It is ludicrous to convert a heavy rail corridor to a tram line, just because of station placement.

[rubberman]

It was a mistake to place the stations so closely in the first place. The same with the Seaford line. They should be placed about 1.5 - 2kms apart. The Holdens station on the former Henley Beach line was barely 300 metre apart.

Now one is stuck with this set up, due to it being politically unfavourable to close any stations. If the OH line had reasonable distance between stations, it would be a 30 minute trip to the CBD at most. It is ludicrous to convert a heavy rail corridor to a tram line, just because of station placement.

Well, yes, sort of, but the reality is it's also ludicrous to have heavy rail if that placement cannot be changed.

The public has two non-ludicrous options:

either use heavy rail with the 1.5-2kM spacing, or

Convert to light rail and have two extra stops for the same schedule speed...and save money.

It also has the ludicrous option of continuing to run heavy rail as if it were a tramway. As for electrification and heavy rail, that is even more insanely ludicrous.

I'll add that this choice was made in the 1920s, and the Glenelg trams are the result.

[MT269]

Another option would be to close the line for a bit, demolish the existing stations except Bowden, and build new ones exactly 600 metres apart. So instead of around 20 or 21 stations, you would have around 32-35.

Nobody would be whinging about stations being too far away then, if they live along the line between two. Could even build some new Jumbos to run as 6 car sets for maximum punctuality. But don't forget to build another station at the junction where it crosses the freight line, and immediately north of the old gaol just past the bridge. One could even be built to serve the RAH as well. It would be a minor station, with no ticket barriers. So a dream for fare evaders.

[rubberman]

Another option would be to close the line for a bit, demolish the existing stations except Bowden, and build new ones exactly 600 metres apart. So instead of around 20 or 21 stations, you would have around 32-35.

Nobody would be whinging about stations being too far away then, if they live along the line between two. Could even build some new Jumbos to run as 6 car sets for maximum punctuality. But don't forget to build another station at the junction where it crosses the freight line, and immediately north of the old gaol just past the bridge. One could even be built to serve the RAH as well. It would be a minor station, with no ticket barriers. So a dream for fare evaders.

Don't give them ideas!

[rev]

Underground Elizabeth train station, passenger rail among Playford Council’s wishlist for transport study

One of SA’s largest councils wants high-speed passenger rail, its most notorious road fixed, and a train station underground in an ambitious pitch to the state government.

Leah Smith
2 min read
March 6, 2024 - 7:00PM

An underground train station in the northern suburbs, extended rail line to the Barossa Valley and fast train passenger service to the Upper Spencer Gulf are part of a Playford Council wishlist in an ambitious transport pitch to the state government.

The council says an underground train station at Elizabeth would “maximise land development opportunities” and fast train to Port Pirie, Port Augusta and Whyalla would support the state government’s push to create a hydrogen-powered green industrial centre in the region.

“There is a need to identify a suitable future rapid mass transit corridor that is separate to the road network,” the council says in its submission to a Northern Adelaide Transport Study.

“The Elizabeth CBD is important for residents and communities in regional SA, providing a northern centre of commercial and cultural activity, without having to travel into the capital city.”

“The vision for the Elizabeth Centre is to support the northern region’s growing population as the central service centre.

“It is acknowledged that this would require significant capital investment, however this would be offset in part with the increase in land yields and values.”

Housing developments at Riverlea, Virginia, Angle Vale and Two Wells, along with employment growth around the northwest economic corridor and Greater Edinburgh Park meant there was need for a “rapid mass transit corridor” in northern suburbs.

The council has also proposed upgrades to east-west road connectors such as Curtis Road to address growing populations in newly developed suburbs in the area.

Population growth and developments, such as Playford Alive and Blakes Crossing have put additional strain on the connectors, leading to increased congestion and travel times, along with increased risk for crashes for commuters.

Curtis Rd in particular has become infamous, with multiple campaigns launched over its conditions and some locals adorning their cars with “F*** Curtis Rd” bumper stickers.

The submission suggests the roads should be “reviewed” to improve capacity, the removal of level crossings along the Gawler Line and improving traffic signalling at major intersections such as Main North Rd.

Australian Bureau of Statistics data shows that currently only eight per cent of Playford residents use public transport for daily city commuting.

The council’s submission notes that if improvements were made to the affordability, train station or train stop amenities including bus shelters, safety, park and ride capacity, along with core elements of frequency and route options to the bus network, usage would increase.

“These principles need to be adopted more broadly across Greater Adelaide, especially in low socio economic communities, such as the City of Playford, who would receive the greatest benefit of a public transport network that is ‘Convenient, connected, and high frequency’,” the report says.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/subscrib ... nt-1-SCORE

[Nort]

I'd be interested to know what the case is for an underground station being desirable. The areas either side of Elizabeth train station are still at a point where any new commercial development connected to it could probably be built over the station more cheaply.

Not sure what it would be either, don't see the shopping centre extending quite that far.

[abc]

regional councils are way down the pecking order in transport infrastructure planning... they can wishlist all they want its not going to make a difference

[Hooligan]

They’re sadly mistaken if they think a hypothetical rural train service from Port Augusta is going to run through Elizabeth enroute to Adelaide…..

[Hooligan]

I'd be interested to know what the case is for an underground station being desirable. The areas either side of Elizabeth train station are still at a point where any new commercial development connected to it could probably be built over the station more cheaply.

Not sure what it would be either, don't see the shopping centre extending quite that far.

Maybe the council have the desire to build another white elephant car park on the other side of the train line?

[rubberman]

They’re sadly mistaken if they think a hypothetical rural train service from Port Augusta is going to run through Elizabeth enroute to Adelaide…..

Well, the Indian Pacific between Perf and Sinny goes through Adelaide, so there is that.

Surely, it would depend on demand from the Northern suburbs?

Probably, what might happen is a connecting Adelaide Metro service from Salisbury to Gawler or a hypothetical Concordia.

I can't see any of this happening at current likely schedules, real costs, and likely demand.

[Eurostar]

Playford Council needs to be terminated, too many clueless including the Mayor.

[dbl96]

They’re sadly mistaken if they think a hypothetical rural train service from Port Augusta is going to run through Elizabeth enroute to Adelaide…..

Exactly.

Salisbury has far better geography for becoming the hub of the northern suburbs and second CBD of Adelaide than Elizabeth does.

Elizabeth's CBD is basically a large shopping centre pinned against the uninhabited RAAF base on the west, and just a couple of kilometres from the uninhabited hills face in the east. It is not geographically central to the region it serves.

Salisbury, on the other hand, is a traditional mixed commercial area centered on a rail junction, and numerous intersecting roads. It is centred on a wide urbanised plain which extends right up into the Elizabeth area and beyond. It is simply in a much better strategic location.

And because of the way the suburbs have developed, Munno Para is naturally now a more sensible location for the regional centre of the Elizabeth cluster than Elizabeth itself.

[MT269]

The RAAF/DSTO was in a semi-rural area 75 years ago. Now's an impediment to urban development, and the local economy. It creates jobs. But at the expense of business, real estate, and virtually everything else. Perhaps it's time to relocate it somewhere more remote, like Mallala or somewhere.

It's like having something the size of Morphettville bus depot direct adjacent to KW St in the city. It's accessible. But what benefit does it provide to the locals?

[SBD]

Australian Bureau of Statistics data shows that currently only eight per cent of Playford residents use public transport for daily city commuting.

What's missing from that piece of information is the proportion of Playford residents who do "daily city commuting" by mean other than public transport. If that's significant, then yes, the public transport share needs to increase. But if the eight percent of residents is over 90 percent of city commuters, then this may be a Good Thing that people who live in outer suburbs also study and work in them. As people move in to Riverlea drawn by the advertising of only 30 minutes to the City, the proportion of Playford-City commuters might increase, but not via Elizabeth. Employment opportunities at Two Wells, Dublin and Edinburgh mean not everyone will go south.

Playford covers a wide band across the north of Adelaide. A fast train to Port Augusta might not go through Elizabeth, but it will almost certainly pass through Playford, which extends from the coast to inland of One Tree Hill. Any northern diversion of rail from Melbourne would also likely pass through Playford.

There is currently no good state-owned east-west route through Playford. The choices are Curtis Road (the only council-owned connection to the North South Motorway) or Womma Road (not many people would call it "good"). A new high-capacity road from Riverlea Park (there's a long-term intent to replace the traffic lights with grade separation) to Main North Road would help to open up connections across the council. Womma Road alignment would be a candidate, but possibly has too much development to make the corridor wider.