News & Discussion: Trams

[Patrick_27]

Trams seem to be a topic of debate everywhere in this country, Gold Coast are currently debating the issue of how to proceed with rapid transit from their city to the airport after iits tram extension from Burleigh Heads to the Airport was removed from Infrastructure Australia's priority list.

Either way, IF we are to proceed with expanding our tram network here, it needs to be done properly. I cannot for the life of me understand how in Sydney, Gold Coast and Newcastle they can build these beautifully designed tramlines whereby every detail has ben considered down to cobble stone between the tracks and station platforms decked out with the highest quality materials and ammenities. Meanwhile in Adelaide, the Botanic Garden extension, was built with what appears to be quick set cement that began cracking within the first few months of it having been poured; the light poles they initially anchored the cabling to couldn't withstand the necessary tension to hold the wires and bent then needing to be replaced, the minimal station plantings have in sections been left to die; and in the case of the cultural precinct stop, they named it 'Art Gallery' then received backlash from the Museum and Library so they STUCK 'Museum' and 'Library' STICKERS over the top of some of the 'Art Gallery' signage. All this, and we're running a fleet that's made up of almost 20-year-old trams and second-hand trams from Madrid. You can't make this stuff up!

[abc]

Trams seem to be a topic of debate everywhere in this country, Gold Coast are currently debating the issue of how to proceed with rapid transit from their city to the airport after iits tram extension from Burleigh Heads to the Airport was removed from Infrastructure Australia's priority list.

Either way, IF we are to proceed with expanding our tram network here, it needs to be done properly. I cannot for the life of me understand how in Sydney, Gold Coast and Newcastle they can build these beautifully designed tramlines whereby every detail has ben considered down to cobble stone between the tracks and station platforms decked out with the highest quality materials and ammenities. Meanwhile in Adelaide, the Botanic Garden extension, was built with what appears to be quick set cement that began cracking within the first few months of it having been poured; the light poles they initially anchored the cabling to couldn't withstand the necessary tension to hold the wires and bent then needing to be replaced, the minimal station plantings have in sections been left to die; and in the case of the cultural precinct stop, they named it 'Art Gallery' then received backlash from the Museum and Library so they STUCK 'Museum' and 'Library' STICKERS over the top of some of the 'Art Gallery' signage. All this, and we're running a fleet that's made up of almost 20-year-old trams and second-hand trams from Madrid. You can't make this stuff up!

South Australian things. We're a much poorer state.

[rubberman]

Trams seem to be a topic of debate everywhere in this country, Gold Coast are currently debating the issue of how to proceed with rapid transit from their city to the airport after iits tram extension from Burleigh Heads to the Airport was removed from Infrastructure Australia's priority list.

Either way, IF we are to proceed with expanding our tram network here, it needs to be done properly. I cannot for the life of me understand how in Sydney, Gold Coast and Newcastle they can build these beautifully designed tramlines whereby every detail has ben considered down to cobble stone between the tracks and station platforms decked out with the highest quality materials and ammenities. Meanwhile in Adelaide, the Botanic Garden extension, was built with what appears to be quick set cement that began cracking within the first few months of it having been poured; the light poles they initially anchored the cabling to couldn't withstand the necessary tension to hold the wires and bent then needing to be replaced, the minimal station plantings have in sections been left to die; and in the case of the cultural precinct stop, they named it 'Art Gallery' then received backlash from the Museum and Library so they STUCK 'Museum' and 'Library' STICKERS over the top of some of the 'Art Gallery' signage. All this, and we're running a fleet that's made up of almost 20-year-old trams and second-hand trams from Madrid. You can't make this stuff up!

Sydney is doing it at an extortionate cost, with everything overengineered. The time taken to put trams down George Street was measured in years, where Melbourne does the same distance in weeks. Then, the trams dawdle. Even though trams are mostly on their own right of way, they are slower than in the 1930s.

I agree that Adelaide made a few bloopers (the bendy poles, lol), but we outperformed Sydney by every important measure of time, cost and performance. Oh, and the number of times that they stop the whole service if there's a problem is ridiculous. I can't even remember the last time that happened in Adelaide.

[Spotto]

Sydney is doing it at an extortionate cost, with everything overengineered. The time taken to put trams down George Street was measured in years, where Melbourne does the same distance in weeks. Then, the trams dawdle. Even though trams are mostly on their own right of way, they are slower than in the 1930s.

Wouldn’t part of the long timeline for George Street be down to the fact that they were also converting a car thoroughfare to a pedestrian zone, and installing ground-level power supply instead of overhead wires?

[ChillyPhilly]

Sydney is doing it at an extortionate cost, with everything overengineered. The time taken to put trams down George Street was measured in years, where Melbourne does the same distance in weeks. Then, the trams dawdle. Even though trams are mostly on their own right of way, they are slower than in the 1930s.

Wouldn’t part of the long timeline for George Street be down to the fact that they were also converting a car thoroughfare to a pedestrian zone, and installing ground-level power supply instead of overhead wires?

Partially this. Judging George Street is a bit unfair considering the issues with delivery and a dodgy contract (which I believe the NSW Government was none the wiser to).

[NTRabbit]

A dodgy construction contract? In NSW? Well now I've heard everything

[rubberman]

Sydney is doing it at an extortionate cost, with everything overengineered. The time taken to put trams down George Street was measured in years, where Melbourne does the same distance in weeks. Then, the trams dawdle. Even though trams are mostly on their own right of way, they are slower than in the 1930s.

Wouldn’t part of the long timeline for George Street be down to the fact that they were also converting a car thoroughfare to a pedestrian zone, and installing ground-level power supply instead of overhead wires?

It's a while ago now, but if I remember correctly, converting Rundle Street to the Mall was months, not years. Pavers are hardly new or complex technology. The in ground charging tech was only for part of George Street from the Town Hall to Circular Quay.

[EBG]

I have travelled on both branches of the L2 (to Randwick and L3 (to Kingsford Junior) in the last 12 months. Not only are both journey times extremely slow but also on both routes the track bed is very rough and the trams seem overly noisy.
To see how not to run a tram service, pleasse check out-

A driver's eye view from Circular Quay to Randwick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWd6kKG ... VisionTour.

[[Shuz]]

Watched the video - that was agonisingly slow and very over engineered.

[rubberman]

Watched the video - that was agonisingly slow and very over engineered.

Yup. Ask yourself why they need concrete track bed vs open ballast track in parts, for trams with the same axle loads? Or, why they used 650mm thick, heavily reinforced concrete, when the standard for trams there was 17" deep mass concrete (ie, no structural reinforcement, only mesh on top to reduce crack size), that is 450mm thickness?

I'd also point out that the original, proven standard, being 450mm, totally avoided existing services which are required to be 600mm deep. No wonder Sydney spent so much.

[Spotto]

With the recently announced North Adelaide Golf Course Upgrade transforming it into another venue to host temporary events like LIV Golf, the tram extension to North Adelaide will be even more critical!

Even a single track branch from O’Connell Street along Ward Street stopping outside the course could be a consideration? The road is already wide enough from its former tram days.

[A-Town]

With the recently announced North Adelaide Golf Course Upgrade transforming it into another venue to host temporary events like LIV Golf, the tram extension to North Adelaide will be even more critical!

Even a single track branch from O’Connell Street along Ward Street stopping outside the course could be a consideration? The road is already wide enough from its former tram days.

The new Aquatic Centre, 88 O'Connell, eventual redevelopment of the WCH into (presumably) high density housing, and now LIV Golf help to build the case that trams should be returned to North Adelaide.

Let's hope Labor feel the same way. Unfortunately, I don't have much faith.

[Nort]

Tram heading down O'Connell and Prospect Road would be great because of the development it supports, but seems hard to justify Ward Street just for the golf course.

[Patrick_27]

Tram heading down O'Connell and Prospect Road would be great because of the development it supports, but seems hard to justify Ward Street just for the golf course.

If memory serves me, the 'coast-to-coast' proposal had planned for trams to turn off KWS and proceed down War Memorial Drive and then link up with the Outer Harbour corridor somewhere along the stretch past the Par 3 course.

[Waewick]

Do we think there is any potential Fed money for a tram ?

Or are we not a state that has enough focus ?

I assume it would be a vote winner for inner city voters