News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[Spotto]

The line to Aldinga has already been reserved, and the lines to Roseworthy and Concordia already have tracks. I think the line to Sellicks Beach is new though.

The remnant tracks to Roseworthy and Concordia/Barossa haven’t been used in 20 and 10 years respectively, likely requiring a complete rehab or replacement of the infrastructure anyway. The corridor is what really matters.

Yes, but in the grand scheme of things, this is an inexpensive fix. To electrify these lines and provide additional rolling stock is likely where the expense is to reinstate these services. However, to take a leaf out of Melbourne's book, the services from Frankston to Mount Martha are diesel operated despite still existing within the metropolitan realm versus V-Line.

Agreed, though I think you mean Frankston to Stony Point.

We also have the rolling stock if they hold onto some of the Comeng-built 3000/3100s for a while longer. They were mechanically refurbished alongside the rest of the fleet less than 10 years ago, the only difference is no hybrid conversion.

Ideally, electrification would be the sensible way but diesel shuttle services are the next best option.

[Cryptic]

Something interesting from the new InfrastructureSA 20 year strategy

[ml69]

Something interesting from the new InfrastructureSA 20 year strategy
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I’m glad they have identified this …. but it’s a pretty obvious issue. Nothing will happen until the late 2030’s at least though, the North South Motorway has sucked up most of the transport budget for the next 10 years.

[ml69]

Also, slightly off-topic, serious consideration should be given to relocating Parafield Airport to the Dry Creek saltpans, and the planned housing estate at Dry Creek built where Parafield Airport currently is now. Look at Google Maps …. you could build a suburb bigger than Mawson Lakes in that area.

This would have numerous benefits of no flood risk for new housing, moves flightpath away from existing houses and importantly utilises the existing Gawler rail line (just need to upgrade the stations already there).

[Nort]

Also, slightly off-topic, serious consideration should be given to relocating Parafield Airport to the Dry Creek saltpans, and the planned housing estate at Dry Creek built where Parafield Airport currently is now. Look at Google Maps …. you could build a suburb bigger than Mawson Lakes in that area.

This would have numerous benefits of no flood risk for new housing, moves flightpath away from existing houses and importantly utilises the existing Gawler rail line (just need to upgrade the stations already there).

I've argued against moving Parafield Airport in the past because the location is precisely what makes it a great training airport, but a swap for land on the salt pans is actually a great idea. Still close to Adelaide and Edinburgh, and easy access to the existing training areas around Port Wakefield and East over the hills. Would have a fair cost in moving all the facilities, but there are also significant costs in getting the salt pans to the level of rehabilitation that they are suitable for housing (and I tend to agree that the flood risk means it's madness building housing there).

They should 100% do it.

[[Shuz]]

If you're going to swap Parafield Airport out to the salt pans, you might as well just make that the new Adelaide Airport. Close enough to the city, nearby freeway and train connections. Open up all the existing Adelaide Airport land for development. Height limits pretty much scrapped completely thus opening up the CBD to even more development, because the runways would be similar alignments. Expand the Aldinga Airstrip into the new Parafield for training flights, out of the way of housing developments.

Win win win win all around.

[Nort]

If you're going to swap Parafield Airport out to the salt pans, you might as well just make that the new Adelaide Airport. Close enough to the city, nearby freeway and train connections. Open up all the existing Adelaide Airport land for development. Height limits pretty much scrapped completely thus opening up the CBD to even more development, because the runways would be similar alignments. Expand the Aldinga Airstrip into the new Parafield for training flights, out of the way of housing developments.

Win win win win all around.

In that situation northbound traffic from the training airport (a majority of the traffic) would all be flying through the Adelaide airport airspace and over the suburbs which is a lot more disruptive, you'd be adding a significant amount of air traffic to the McLaren Vale region, and it would be much more expensive to move Adelaide airport (although to be fair the land would be very valuable so selling that could make up a lot of the cost), and you'd be moving Adelaides main airport further from the city itself, and especially significantly further for anyone who lives south of the city.

Could probably make a decent case for it weighing up the pros and cons, but hardly a win win win .

[ml69]

If you're going to swap Parafield Airport out to the salt pans, you might as well just make that the new Adelaide Airport. Close enough to the city, nearby freeway and train connections. Open up all the existing Adelaide Airport land for development. Height limits pretty much scrapped completely thus opening up the CBD to even more development, because the runways would be similar alignments. Expand the Aldinga Airstrip into the new Parafield for training flights, out of the way of housing developments.

Win win win win all around.

In that situation northbound traffic from the training airport (a majority of the traffic) would all be flying through the Adelaide airport airspace and over the suburbs which is a lot more disruptive, you'd be adding a significant amount of air traffic to the McLaren Vale region, and it would be much more expensive to move Adelaide airport (although to be fair the land would be very valuable so selling that could make up a lot of the cost), and you'd be moving Adelaides main airport further from the city itself, and especially significantly further for anyone who lives south of the city.

Could probably make a decent case for it weighing up the pros and cons, but hardly a win win win .

Unless you could make a relocated Adelaide Airport operate 24/7, I cannot see a strong justification to move it. The current location is a wonderfully convenient central location for Adelaide residents and also for tourists, being located close to both the CBD and Glenelg. Will be even more accessible when the North South Motorway is done.

As for the city skyline, we already have a 180m proposal in Keystone Tower with airport restrictions in place. If the city continues to grow in the coming decades and we get more proposals capped at this 180m height, that is still a good outcome from a skyline perspective.

[SRW]

Also, slightly off-topic, serious consideration should be given to relocating Parafield Airport to the Dry Creek saltpans, and the planned housing estate at Dry Creek built where Parafield Airport currently is now. Look at Google Maps …. you could build a suburb bigger than Mawson Lakes in that area.

This would have numerous benefits of no flood risk for new housing, moves flightpath away from existing houses and importantly utilises the existing Gawler rail line (just need to upgrade the stations already there).

Great idea -- honestly this use swap makes better sense for each location (presuming an airport on the salt pans doesn't adversely affect the adjacent wetlands/birdlife). Looks large enough for more runways to accomodate more training, or potentially out-of-hours freight in lieu of Adelaide Airport.

[rev]

The one key detail all these ideas to swap airports around to the salt pans are not taking into consideration, is noise pollution.
You would essentially just be moving the problem of aircraft noise, and in the case of Adelaide Airport flights past the curfew hours, to another part of the city and shift those issues to those residents. If billions are going to be spent on such an endeavour, may as well do it properly and avoid the issues the current setup faces.
Not to mention, what a view of the Wingfield tip tourists would have leaving the airport

Not that its going to happen but if the state/feds are going to go to the expense of building new airports, they may as well build one north of the city between Two Wells/Lewiston/Gawler, well away from any potential major housing development as it would sit outside the Adelaide metropolitan boundary. Could build it large enough to accommodate all the flight training as well. Would create further justification for expanding the rail network into the new northern housing zones and to a new airport, and a motorway running between the PWR and NEXY. The rail component could even come up from the eastern side near PWR, turn towards Gawler to catch the airport and then connect back with the Gawler line.

[Hooligan]

Not this shit again…… Adelaide airport is not moving. Not now and not within the next 50 years.

[ml69]

The one key detail all these ideas to swap airports around to the salt pans are not taking into consideration, is noise pollution.
You would essentially just be moving the problem of aircraft noise, and in the case of Adelaide Airport flights past the curfew hours, to another part of the city and shift those issues to those residents. If billions are going to be spent on such an endeavour, may as well do it properly and avoid the issues the current setup faces.
Not to mention, what a view of the Wingfield tip tourists would have leaving the airport

Not that its going to happen but if the state/feds are going to go to the expense of building new airports, they may as well build one north of the city between Two Wells/Lewiston/Gawler, well away from any potential major housing development as it would sit outside the Adelaide metropolitan boundary. Could build it large enough to accommodate all the flight training as well. Would create further justification for expanding the rail network into the new northern housing zones and to a new airport, and a motorway running between the PWR and NEXY. The rail component could even come up from the eastern side near PWR, turn towards Gawler to catch the airport and then connect back with the Gawler line.

You’re right about moving the noise pollution to another part of the city if Adelaide Airport is relocated. There are no capacity constraints at the current airport - therefore there is no compelling reason to move it at all, let alone the billions it would cost to do so.

The Parafield situation is different - it seems to be an obvious solution to put a housing estate there rather than at the Dry Creek saltpans. The cost of relocating Parafield would be a small fraction compared to relocating Adelaide Airport.

[Nort]

Also, slightly off-topic, serious consideration should be given to relocating Parafield Airport to the Dry Creek saltpans, and the planned housing estate at Dry Creek built where Parafield Airport currently is now. Look at Google Maps …. you could build a suburb bigger than Mawson Lakes in that area.

This would have numerous benefits of no flood risk for new housing, moves flightpath away from existing houses and importantly utilises the existing Gawler rail line (just need to upgrade the stations already there).

Great idea -- honestly this use swap makes better sense for each location (presuming an airport on the salt pans doesn't adversely affect the adjacent wetlands/birdlife). Looks large enough for more runways to accomodate more training, or potentially out-of-hours freight in lieu of Adelaide Airport.

It would have a wildlife impact, but I think the plans for dense housing on the salt pans and all the traffic that will bring will give more of an impact anyway.

[Patrick_27]

I mean, everyone in this discussion is conveniently not mentioning Edinburgh as an option for AA... It's largely out of suburbia so there's more chance of lifted curfews, it's within an earshot of the existing North-South Corridor and Gawler Line so connecting these with an airport wouldn't be cost prohibitive, it has plenty of room for expansion (additional runways and terminal infrastructure), it's existing runway's length is halfway between both operational runways at the existing AA, and the best part? The federal government own the site. Before the argument of it being a military airport, remember that both Darwin and Brisbane Airports double up as civilian/military airports and offer far more critical services to the RAAF.

[SRW]

To be clear, I'm intrigued by the idea of swapping salt pan housing and Parafield Airport, not moving Adelaide Airport. Adelaide Airport is great.