News & Discussion: Regional Transport

[Spotto]

An update on our regional public transport review.
As part of the State Government election commitment, the Department for Infrastructure and Transport is currently reviewing public transport services in regional South Australia.
More: https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/about- ... ort-review

For starters, the regional coach network needs to be better integrated with the Adelaide Metro system. Every other state’s transport authority website is an easy one-stop-shop for metropolitan and regional service info and ticketing.

In SA, regional info and ticketing are all separated up amongst the contracted operators.

[claybro]

I’m sure there’s figures out there, but would be interesting to know how many people traveled to games at AO each weekend via coaches vs private cars from Riverland/ Spencer Gulf etc.. surely there is a case to investigate a couple of modern V/Lo city sets for these lines, and book slots for express services from the regions. This might be a pre curser to regular services.

[Spotto]

I’m sure there’s figures out there, but would be interesting to know how many people traveled to games at AO each weekend via coaches vs private cars from Riverland/ Spencer Gulf etc.. surely there is a case to investigate a couple of modern V/Lo city sets for these lines, and book slots for express services from the regions. This might be a pre curser to regular services.

As much as I’d love to see regional rail make a return, we need to make our regional coach system remotely adequate before we even think about rail. Popular routes could then become a test-case for future rail.

Medium-distance regional rail to places like Kapunda, the Barossa and Murray Bridge/The Bend would be more achievable goals to install confidence in the idea of regional rail. Start small, and grow out!

[SBD]

I’m sure there’s figures out there, but would be interesting to know how many people traveled to games at AO each weekend via coaches vs private cars from Riverland/ Spencer Gulf etc.. surely there is a case to investigate a couple of modern V/Lo city sets for these lines, and book slots for express services from the regions. This might be a pre curser to regular services.

As much as I’d love to see regional rail make a return, we need to make our regional coach system remotely adequate before we even think about rail. Popular routes could then become a test-case for future rail.

Medium-distance regional rail to places like Kapunda, the Barossa and Murray Bridge/The Bend would be more achievable goals to install confidence in the idea of regional rail. Start small, and grow out!

Starting with Kapunda, Barossa and Murray Bridge would not be starting regional rail services, it would be extending the metropolitan rail further into the urban sprawl. People already commute from those places to Gawler, Mount Barker and Adelaide for work and study. Better commuter public transport would enable more people to perpetuate the Malinauskas Government dream of a larger Adelaide Metropolitan area rather than treating it as a necessary short-term inconvenience until one of work and home moves to bring them closer.

A Footy Express on Standard Gauge ARTC track with stops at Whyalla, Port Augusta, Port Pirie, Crystal Brook, Bowmans, Two Wells would require construction of station infrastructure (toilets, parking, platform etc) but minimal new rail work. That would be the only route able to compete on travel time against buses without building new rail corridors.

[rev]

I’m sure there’s figures out there, but would be interesting to know how many people traveled to games at AO each weekend via coaches vs private cars from Riverland/ Spencer Gulf etc.. surely there is a case to investigate a couple of modern V/Lo city sets for these lines, and book slots for express services from the regions. This might be a pre curser to regular services.

As much as I’d love to see regional rail make a return, we need to make our regional coach system remotely adequate before we even think about rail. Popular routes could then become a test-case for future rail.

Medium-distance regional rail to places like Kapunda, the Barossa and Murray Bridge/The Bend would be more achievable goals to install confidence in the idea of regional rail. Start small, and grow out!

Starting with Kapunda, Barossa and Murray Bridge would not be starting regional rail services, it would be extending the metropolitan rail further into the urban sprawl. People already commute from those places to Gawler, Mount Barker and Adelaide for work and study. Better commuter public transport would enable more people to perpetuate the Malinauskas Government dream of a larger Adelaide Metropolitan area rather than treating it as a necessary short-term inconvenience until one of work and home moves to bring them closer.

A Footy Express on Standard Gauge ARTC track with stops at Whyalla, Port Augusta, Port Pirie, Crystal Brook, Bowmans, Two Wells would require construction of station infrastructure (toilets, parking, platform etc) but minimal new rail work. That would be the only route able to compete on travel time against buses without building new rail corridors.

Why would a passenger train stop at Bowmans for a population under 100? Or Crystal Brook with barely 1500 people...?

Places like Tanunda, Nurioopta, Victor Harbour, Mt Barker, Strathalbyn, Murray Bridge I'd think are perfect for a regional rail network to start with.
There's not many other places worth it, perhaps Mt Gambier, the Riverland, and the upper Spencer Gulf cities.

Is a Footy Express the selling point?
How about job creation, tourism, allowing people to commute for work at greater distances at cheaper costs, connecting regions with the main economic hub of the state (Adelaide), improved access to better services, improving freight connections etc, that can help revitalise those regional cities?

[SBD]

As much as I’d love to see regional rail make a return, we need to make our regional coach system remotely adequate before we even think about rail. Popular routes could then become a test-case for future rail.

Medium-distance regional rail to places like Kapunda, the Barossa and Murray Bridge/The Bend would be more achievable goals to install confidence in the idea of regional rail. Start small, and grow out!

Starting with Kapunda, Barossa and Murray Bridge would not be starting regional rail services, it would be extending the metropolitan rail further into the urban sprawl. People already commute from those places to Gawler, Mount Barker and Adelaide for work and study. Better commuter public transport would enable more people to perpetuate the Malinauskas Government dream of a larger Adelaide Metropolitan area rather than treating it as a necessary short-term inconvenience until one of work and home moves to bring them closer.

A Footy Express on Standard Gauge ARTC track with stops at Whyalla, Port Augusta, Port Pirie, Crystal Brook, Bowmans, Two Wells would require construction of station infrastructure (toilets, parking, platform etc) but minimal new rail work. That would be the only route able to compete on travel time against buses without building new rail corridors.

Why would a passenger train stop at Bowmans for a population under 100? Or Crystal Brook with barely 1500 people...?

Places like Tanunda, Nurioopta, Victor Harbour, Mt Barker, Strathalbyn, Murray Bridge I'd think are perfect for a regional rail network to start with.
There's not many other places worth it, perhaps Mt Gambier, the Riverland, and the upper Spencer Gulf cities.

Is a Footy Express the selling point?
How about job creation, tourism, allowing people to commute for work at greater distances at cheaper costs, connecting regions with the main economic hub of the state (Adelaide), improved access to better services, improving freight connections etc, that can help revitalise those regional cities?

Bowmans would be the interchange for Yorke Peninsula - a bus stop and a large car park for people coming from Yorke Peninsula (pop. 11500), Copper Coast (15000) and Barunga West (2600) council areas.

I included Crystal Brook to draw people from the Gladstone-Jamestown-Peterborough corridor, which would also be a candidate for a spur/feeder service as it also has active ARTC track.

The current/former rail corridors that require trains to traverse Belair-Bridgewater can't compete with buses. It used to be part of the metro rail network, but closed well before the Heysen Tunnels were built because buses provided a better service, despite Eagle-on-the-Hill and the Devil's Elbow. A revitalised Globelink Short South freeway+railway option might be a different proposition.

We are in the current traffic and housing predicaments because everyone thinks they can commute long distances. (Re-)establishing regional cities that don't need daily travel to Adelaide would be a much better solution for long-term planning. They need employment, health and education infrastructure, not just long distance transport.

[Norman]

Rather than investing hundreds of millions of dollars into a regional rail network the government should make regional transport cheaper, more frequent and integrated into the Adelaide Metro system. This means being able to use Metrocards (with a higher charge, but not the crazy costs we have now), Google Maps and making sure buses connect to trains in places like Gawler and Seaford. Some of this already exists with the services to Victor Harbor, but the prices are still too high.

Once the demand has been proven and mode shift has occurred we can think about extending the rail network into regional areas. Let's start with simplifying things before we move to the tough, expensive decisions.

[rubberman]

Rather than investing hundreds of millions of dollars into a regional rail network the government should make regional transport cheaper, more frequent and integrated into the Adelaide Metro system. This means being able to use Metrocards (with a higher charge, but not the crazy costs we have now), Google Maps and making sure buses connect to trains in places like Gawler and Seaford. Some of this already exists with the services to Victor Harbor, but the prices are still too high.

Once the demand has been proven and mode shift has occurred we can think about extending the rail network into regional areas. Let's start with simplifying things before we move to the tough, expensive decisions.

True. However, it wouldn't cost hundreds of millions to regauge some spare railcars and install a couple of hundred metres of standard gauge into the Adelaide yard for a service as far as Two Wells. Noting that that area and Virginia are developing. Now, with freight movements, it's likely to be a half hour or one hour frequency. But it certainly could be a relatively cheap start to an area that needs it.

[Norman]

Rather than investing hundreds of millions of dollars into a regional rail network the government should make regional transport cheaper, more frequent and integrated into the Adelaide Metro system. This means being able to use Metrocards (with a higher charge, but not the crazy costs we have now), Google Maps and making sure buses connect to trains in places like Gawler and Seaford. Some of this already exists with the services to Victor Harbor, but the prices are still too high.

Once the demand has been proven and mode shift has occurred we can think about extending the rail network into regional areas. Let's start with simplifying things before we move to the tough, expensive decisions.

True. However, it wouldn't cost hundreds of millions to regauge some spare railcars and install a couple of hundred metres of standard gauge into the Adelaide yard for a service as far as Two Wells. Noting that that area and Virginia are developing. Now, with freight movements, it's likely to be a half hour or one hour frequency. But it certainly could be a relatively cheap start to an area that needs it.

Well, you don't just need to have the railcars, you also need to add platforms for each stop along the way, because there are none if any along the current standard gauge track. You probably also need to add more passing loops as there are several freight trains that run at all times of the day (I know because I live right next to the corridor) and also figure out how the train will move past the Islington and Dry Creek rail yards... Will they move through the yards or will there be new track to bypass them. Moving through the yards will add considerable time to the journey and will require careful planning with the companies that already use them to ensure a smooth passage.

[Spotto]

and also figure out how the train will move past the Islington and Dry Creek rail yards... Will they move through the yards or will there be new track to bypass them. Moving through the yards will add considerable time to the journey and will require careful planning with the companies that already use them to ensure a smooth passage.

The Indian Pacific, Ghan and freight trains not using those yards follow the main line that bypasses those yards altogether. It would be safe to assume the same would apply to a future commuter service.

[rubberman]

Rather than investing hundreds of millions of dollars into a regional rail network the government should make regional transport cheaper, more frequent and integrated into the Adelaide Metro system. This means being able to use Metrocards (with a higher charge, but not the crazy costs we have now), Google Maps and making sure buses connect to trains in places like Gawler and Seaford. Some of this already exists with the services to Victor Harbor, but the prices are still too high.

Once the demand has been proven and mode shift has occurred we can think about extending the rail network into regional areas. Let's start with simplifying things before we move to the tough, expensive decisions.

True. However, it wouldn't cost hundreds of millions to regauge some spare railcars and install a couple of hundred metres of standard gauge into the Adelaide yard for a service as far as Two Wells. Noting that that area and Virginia are developing. Now, with freight movements, it's likely to be a half hour or one hour frequency. But it certainly could be a relatively cheap start to an area that needs it.

Well, you don't just need to have the railcars, you also need to add platforms for each stop along the way, because there are none if any along the current standard gauge track. You probably also need to add more passing loops as there are several freight trains that run at all times of the day (I know because I live right next to the corridor) and also figure out how the train will move past the Islington and Dry Creek rail yards... Will they move through the yards or will there be new track to bypass them. Moving through the yards will add considerable time to the journey and will require careful planning with the companies that already use them to ensure a smooth passage.

There's no doubt in my mind that the government could gold plate something this simple and turn it into a very expensive deal. Or, it could go bare essentials, working round the freight trains, and provide a basic service to start, with the option of adding loops and fancy platforms later.

The "expensive deal" option is what they did for the right turn for trams onto North Terrace in order to kill the proposal.

So, yes, if the Government wasn't interested, it would be simple to make up an alternative that's expensive: lots of loops for a ten minute service, lots of fancy stops etc.

[SBD]

True. However, it wouldn't cost hundreds of millions to regauge some spare railcars and install a couple of hundred metres of standard gauge into the Adelaide yard for a service as far as Two Wells. Noting that that area and Virginia are developing. Now, with freight movements, it's likely to be a half hour or one hour frequency. But it certainly could be a relatively cheap start to an area that needs it.

Well, you don't just need to have the railcars, you also need to add platforms for each stop along the way, because there are none if any along the current standard gauge track. You probably also need to add more passing loops as there are several freight trains that run at all times of the day (I know because I live right next to the corridor) and also figure out how the train will move past the Islington and Dry Creek rail yards... Will they move through the yards or will there be new track to bypass them. Moving through the yards will add considerable time to the journey and will require careful planning with the companies that already use them to ensure a smooth passage.

There's no doubt in my mind that the government could gold plate something this simple and turn it into a very expensive deal. Or, it could go bare essentials, working round the freight trains, and provide a basic service to start, with the option of adding loops and fancy platforms later.

The "expensive deal" option is what they did for the right turn for trams onto North Terrace in order to kill the proposal.

So, yes, if the Government wasn't interested, it would be simple to make up an alternative that's expensive: lots of loops for a ten minute service, lots of fancy stops etc.

Would your "simple" service use ground-level loading (thus upsetting mobility-impaired potential users and our advocates) or require platforms close to the track at each stop? If there are any remaining platforms on the freight corridor, the tracks have probably been moved away to ensure that freight trains at speed cannot accidentally contact the platform. ARTC or its regulator would probably require changes to signalling, and maybe station siding loops next to the platforms off of the main line.

How many stops would you put on this initial inexpensive service? Would Two Wells, Virginia, Salisbury and Adelaide be enough? Or would you go even simpler and just go for Virginia and Adelaide?

[rubberman]

Well, you don't just need to have the railcars, you also need to add platforms for each stop along the way, because there are none if any along the current standard gauge track. You probably also need to add more passing loops as there are several freight trains that run at all times of the day (I know because I live right next to the corridor) and also figure out how the train will move past the Islington and Dry Creek rail yards... Will they move through the yards or will there be new track to bypass them. Moving through the yards will add considerable time to the journey and will require careful planning with the companies that already use them to ensure a smooth passage.

There's no doubt in my mind that the government could gold plate something this simple and turn it into a very expensive deal. Or, it could go bare essentials, working round the freight trains, and provide a basic service to start, with the option of adding loops and fancy platforms later.

The "expensive deal" option is what they did for the right turn for trams onto North Terrace in order to kill the proposal.

So, yes, if the Government wasn't interested, it would be simple to make up an alternative that's expensive: lots of loops for a ten minute service, lots of fancy stops etc.

Would your "simple" service use ground-level loading (thus upsetting mobility-impaired potential users and our advocates) or require platforms close to the track at each stop? If there are any remaining platforms on the freight corridor, the tracks have probably been moved away to ensure that freight trains at speed cannot accidentally contact the platform. ARTC or its regulator would probably require changes to signalling, and maybe station siding loops next to the platforms off of the main line.

How many stops would you put on this initial inexpensive service? Would Two Wells, Virginia, Salisbury and Adelaide be enough? Or would you go even simpler and just go for Virginia and Adelaide?

The standard approach for infrastructure expansion is to try to stage it in line with demand.

So, at the moment, that would likely mean stops at Two Wells and Virginia. There's certainly plenty of development.

Those stops would presumably be a platform and ramped approaches with a fence and shelter.

Using surplus railcars and only those stops would mean a very fast service to Adelaide Railway Station.

There'd also have to be consideration for bus routes as feeders, car parks etc, but it surely doesn't need to be over the top?

[Spotto]

How many stops would you put on this initial inexpensive service? Would Two Wells, Virginia, Salisbury and Adelaide be enough? Or would you go even simpler and just go for Virginia and Adelaide?

The standard approach for infrastructure expansion is to try to stage it in line with demand.

So, at the moment, that would likely mean stops at Two Wells and Virginia. There's certainly plenty of development.

Those stops would presumably be a platform and ramped approaches with a fence and shelter.

Using surplus railcars and only those stops would mean a very fast service to Adelaide Railway Station.

There'd also have to be consideration for bus routes as feeders, car parks etc, but it surely doesn't need to be over the top?

The station at Virginia would be well positioned for transfers with buses to Angle Vale and Riverlea. A stop at Salisbury would really be needed for easier transfers with the Gawler line and local buses.

If we’re talking a short-term trial only, temporary platforms could be an option. Showground station used to be temporary every year, and Midland station in Perth is currently using a temporary platform during rebuilding works.

[Nort]

It's barely regional, but lots of chatter today with people questioning the rail strategy of the government.

Mali has been telling people to leave early for the Lyndoch game since there's only one main road there, meanwhile the train line runs right next to the oval. With a relatively modest investment the government could have had diesel trains running right from the Gather Round festival area at Elder Park to the stop right next to the oval at Lyndoch.