Railyards... what do you want done to them?

[ColonelFlashLight]

This thread's become hopelessly derailed. It's not really about whether we should build a new hospital (we really do need to) or whether we should build a stadium or an entertainment precinct or where any of those things should go.

It's about getting Rann to make public the reasons why the hospital is to be located on the railyard site. If the Government has some ironclad reason then they should make it public. Otherwise if their reasons don't add up then we should look at convincing them to build it elsewhere, leaving the railyards free for some better civic purpose.

Monotone, with all due respect, you are 100% wrong. This thread was created to encourage discussion on an article titled: "Rann tells voters: If you want a new city stadium, vote me out". Since the very beginning a small group have attempted to 'hijack' this thread and misdirect its course. But the reality is, this thread is all about whether we should be building a stadium or a hospital.

Monotone, what would be your position of putting this decision into the hands of the people? A one question, statewide referendum where the majority win. Should the taxpayers be given the opportunity to be involved in a decision as large and controversial as this? My answer is: Yes.

[monotonehell]

This thread's become hopelessly derailed. It's not really about whether we should build a new hospital (we really do need to) or whether we should build a stadium or an entertainment precinct or where any of those things should go.

It's about getting Rann to make public the reasons why the hospital is to be located on the railyard site. If the Government has some ironclad reason then they should make it public. Otherwise if their reasons don't add up then we should look at convincing them to build it elsewhere, leaving the railyards free for some better civic purpose.

Monotone, with all due respect, you are 100% wrong. This thread was created to encourage discussion on an article titled: "Rann tells voters: If you want a new city stadium, vote me out". Since the very beginning a small group have attempted to 'hijack' this thread and misdirect its course. But the reality is, this thread is all about whether we should be building a stadium or a hospital.

Monotone, what would be your position of putting this decision into the hands of the people? A one question, statewide referendum where the majority win. Should the taxpayers be given the opportunity to be involved in a decision as large and controversial as this? My answer is: Yes.

Yes this thread in itself was started when Rann made that ridiculous ultimatum. But open your eyes to the bigger picture. The discussion about the railyards issue has been going on in the SensationalAdelaide forums for quite a while now, and most of those involved understand it isn't as simple as "Hospital verses Entertainment Precinct". In fact when Rann made that ultimatum most people's reactions were disappointment.

A referendum is pointless at this point, as is any public opinion, because we simply aren't in possession of all the facts. All we have is heresay, scaremongering campaigns and half truths. The core issue at this time is to get Rann to make public any planning, investigations, alternatives, reasoning and etcetera behind the hospital plans.

Anyone sitting firmly in any of the camps at this point is either sitting on ignorance or has a private agenda. Personally I think a new hospital is a good idea, I think the railyards would make a good site for the hospital, but I also believe that the railyards have far more potential than to be 'wasted' on just a hospital.

BUT I want information before I'm asked to make a firm decision. And frankly calling for a referendum on such an issue when everyone is in the dark is silly. Democracy only works when people have the facts.

[Wayno]

yep, agree this thread has gone into a death spiral. I've even managed to completely confuse myself with respect to submitting a letter to Media Mike. I don't feel any closer to deciding on the best option, or whether to continue with a submission at all...

In the purest sense the public angst associated with the Marj Hospital is due to the complete lack of open govt decision making. Secondary to that is whether the railyards are the best location. They might be, we just don't know the "big picture" rationale for their decision.

My desire to ask the govt for a "Greater Adelaide Master Plan" is most likely a waste of time - as it will never happen (for many many political reasons).

[crawls away to have a beer and ponder life]

[Howie]

From Martin2010 website:

Rann’s secret plan for apartments on RAH
Tuesday, 29 April 2008


The Royal Adelaide Hospital site is being assessed as a site for residential apartments under a secret plan being developed by the Rann Government.

In the Legislative Council today, Shadow Urban Development & Planning Minister, David Ridgway said that he had been advised that Woodheads, an International Architectural and Design firm had been engaged by the Government to undertake structural planning for the Royal Adelaide Hospital site.

“The Minister for Urban Development and Planning, Paul Holloway did not deny that Woodheads had been engaged by the Rann Government,” Mr Ridgway said.
“Indications have been made to my office that commercial aspirations for the site would suit high priced residential apartments.
“Minister Holloway avoided answering any questions I raised on the future of the RAH site referring all questions to the Minister for Health.
Asked in the Legislative Council today to confirm the appointment of Woodheads Mr Holloway said;
“That is a matter for the Minister for Health. I will refer the question to him and bring back a reply.”
“It would seem that the States Planning Minister knows nothing about one of the biggest development proposals in the states history.

“The Rann Government must inform South Australians as to their plans for the RAH site.

“Are they planning to sell it off to pay for their proposed Marjorie Jackson-Nelson Hospital?”

[JAKJ]

From Martin2010 website:

Rann’s secret plan for apartments on RAH
Tuesday, 29 April 2008


The Royal Adelaide Hospital site is being assessed as a site for residential apartments under a secret plan being developed by the Rann Government.

In the Legislative Council today, Shadow Urban Development & Planning Minister, David Ridgway said that he had been advised that Woodheads, an International Architectural and Design firm had been engaged by the Government to undertake structural planning for the Royal Adelaide Hospital site.

“The Minister for Urban Development and Planning, Paul Holloway did not deny that Woodheads had been engaged by the Rann Government,” Mr Ridgway said.
“Indications have been made to my office that commercial aspirations for the site would suit high priced residential apartments.
“Minister Holloway avoided answering any questions I raised on the future of the RAH site referring all questions to the Minister for Health.
Asked in the Legislative Council today to confirm the appointment of Woodheads Mr Holloway said;
“That is a matter for the Minister for Health. I will refer the question to him and bring back a reply.”
“It would seem that the States Planning Minister knows nothing about one of the biggest development proposals in the states history.

“The Rann Government must inform South Australians as to their plans for the RAH site.

“Are they planning to sell it off to pay for their proposed Marjorie Jackson-Nelson Hospital?”

Interesting.... If the hospital were to be moved I would think that some of the land at least will be given to the University of Adelaide which is capacity constrained as it is. Apartments however are more contentious, but it is understandable that the government would want to offset some of the costs of building a new hospital by doing such a development. One thing that would be a complete waste is to return the site to parklands/gardens, particularly since the council/state government are still yet to finish the botanic gardens connection at the old carpark next to of the University's medical building.

[monotonehell]

I heard about this before MHS started talking about it. The investigation is regarding what to do with the heritage buildings that will remain after the hospital is relocated. Some residential and commercial use (like restaurants on Frome Road) in the existing buildings makes sense. It's a tad hypocritical of MHS who wants to turn all of the railyards site into a commercial development.

[Shuz]

I hope they mean apartments within the existing RAH heritage structures and not new towers. Besides, I'm fairly sure that I've seen plans around of an enlarged Botanic Gardens to take over the RAH site... Can't remember where though...

[Norman]

I uploaded this ages ago...

[monotonehell]

I hope they mean apartments within the existing RAH heritage structures and not new towers. Besides, I'm fairly sure that I've seen plans around of an enlarged Botanic Gardens to take over the RAH site... Can't remember where though...

I uploaded this ages ago...

(youtube video)

Exactly, it was all over the news media at the time MHS claims of "secret" are just plain wrong in this case.

[ColonelFlashLight]

I hope they mean apartments within the existing RAH heritage structures and not new towers. Besides, I'm fairly sure that I've seen plans around of an enlarged Botanic Gardens to take over the RAH site... Can't remember where though...

I uploaded this ages ago...

(youtube video)

Exactly, it was all over the news media at the time MHS claims of "secret" are just plain wrong in this case.

Monotone, are you affiliated with the the State Labor party in any way? I ask because you seem to always jump at the opportunity to slander Martin Hamilton-Smith, this time for "claims of secrets". But if you read the Press Release you're referring to, you'd find the comments were made by Shadow Urban Development & Planning Minister, David Ridgway.

I've noticed a very Pro-Rann and anti-MHS trend throughout many of your posts and whilst I acknowledge everybody's right to political opinions I would ask whether this site is the correct forum for posts that are purely political and don't contribute to the subject of discussion? Remember just days before within this very thread you made claims the topic had become "derailed".

[Shuz]

I'm Pro-Rann and anti-MHS as well. So its not just me! And for the record, I'm not affiliated with the Labor Party either, I voted Greens at last election.

[ColonelFlashLight]

I'm Pro-Rann and anti-MHS as well. So its not just me! And for the record, I'm not affiliated with the Labor Party either, I voted Greens at last election.

Good work Shuz for putting it out there. In light of this tranparency, Ill make it public that last state election I voted Labor. At the time it seemed to me that Rann was the better option. I don't think he's held up his end of the bargain though. His role as an elected official is to manage the affairs of the State for the people. And looking at multiple poll results (from both AdelaideNow and Sensational Adelaide) the public are voting overwhelmingly in the favour of a stadium/entertainment precinct at the railyards site, not a hospital.
For this reason, and a host of others (that would be better suited to other threads e.g public transport, roads etc) I will strongly consider MHS as my first preference.
Not because of political barracking.

[Wayno]

Monotone, are you affiliated with the the State Labor party in any way? I ask because you seem to always jump at the opportunity to slander Martin Hamilton-Smith, this time for "claims of secrets". But if you read the Press Release you're referring to, you'd find the comments were made by Shadow Urban Development & Planning Minister, David Ridgway.

I've noticed a very Pro-Rann and anti-MHS trend throughout many of your posts and whilst I acknowledge everybody's right to political opinions I would ask whether this site is the correct forum for posts that are purely political and don't contribute to the subject of discussion? Remember just days before within this very thread you made claims the topic had become "derailed".

I concur with monotonehell - this topic has become derailed, and is evidenced further by the fact we are now bickering over personal opinions! In part the problem is due to the inappropriately polarising subject title.

Lock this thread and move on.

[monotonehell]

Monotone, are you affiliated with the the State Labor party in any way? I ask because you seem to always jump at the opportunity to slander Martin Hamilton-Smith, this time for "claims of secrets". But if you read the Press Release you're referring to, you'd find the comments were made by Shadow Urban Development & Planning Minister, David Ridgway.

I've noticed a very Pro-Rann and anti-MHS trend throughout many of your posts and whilst I acknowledge everybody's right to political opinions I would ask whether this site is the correct forum for posts that are purely political and don't contribute to the subject of discussion? Remember just days before within this very thread you made claims the topic had become "derailed".

I'm not affiliated with any political party. I'm just cynical. I voted Greens last election.

If you've noticed I've "slandered" any politician who makes a stupid statement. Nice choice of words there by the way, if it's slander to call people up when they make a public gaff then yay for slander. Yes I read the piece, and yes it was by Doctor Doom (Fix it Pat's opposite), but I read it on Marty's website so ostensibly it was from his lips.

I think any pro-Rann-ness you've noticed in my posts highlights your own bias. I like Marty's ideas for the railyards for example, but only because they mirror SensationalAdelaide's somewhat. What I am is allergic to obvious stunts and media politics, something which the current opposition has been dishing up a lot. Most of which has been shortsighted and easily refuted if you know even the thinest veneer of facts.

I'm also not pleased with Rann's recent secretive nature regarding a few issues. Labor seems to be dishing out what appears (if you look at the big picture) to have a grand plan behind it. But because they're not communicating with the public we can't know for sure and that frustrates the (monotone)hell out of me.

So as far as this cynical duck sees it, it's a choice between Rann who might know what he's doing, and Marty who has no idea what he's doing but has pinched a few good ideas from the public. Like I said - I'm cynical.

And yes this topic has become derailed; by the very act of Rann making the declaration "Hospital or Stadium". It's just not that simple, he knows it and it's a bloody childish thing to say.

[Howie]

I concur with monotonehell - this topic has become derailed, and is evidenced further by the fact we are now bickering over personal opinions! In part the problem is due to the inappropriately polarising subject title.

Lock this thread and move on.

What wayno said.. if we can try to keep this discussion on the railyards, and i'll try to change the title thread. But i'd like to keep this thread open as I hold hope that someone from either political party will stop and read it for a moment - south aussies no matter their political persuasions demand more from both major political parties.