[COM] Adelaide Oval Redevelopment

[JamesXander]

Nothing in this city can ever be simple can it.

so lets recap

AAMI is a shit hole, with both clubs experiencing declining crowds, and NOTHING at all to suggest it will reservse anytime soon. PAFC is losing money through poor crowds, the Crows are going to report a LOSS this year, and with decling crowds and membership their situation will only get worse. The SANFL with AAMI being its cashcow will have reduced cashflow, thereby affecting all 9 SANFL clubs of which 3 are in dire trouble. The SANFL does an enourmous amount of grass roots developement so it will affect alot of local clubs too.



So the option is to either stay at AAMI hope for a turn for the better, at the cost of $110m.

or we build a new stadium, at a predicted cost of $1billion dollars. This option would most likely see the government pay a huge amount of money, an investmeny by the SANFL that will equate to a pittance. The moving of the two AFL clubs, perhaps Adelaide United? 3 tenants, a billion dollars. And just down the road you have Adelaide Oval....


Adelaide Oval, a prime located stadium that is currently seeing a new grandstand built. Home to a state cricket team, that sees crowds of perhaps 20-100 people. An upgrade would cost about $500 million. It would see tenants of two afl teams, a state league team, and perhaps Adelaide United one day. It would also condense all future upgrade costs into ONE stadium. Its short term savings would be just as great as its long term savings.




But no, politics is going to play its great role in these events. State, SANFL, SACA, everyday arm chair politician & AFL. All squabbling No. No. No, nothing can ever be simple in this joint. Lets argue, agree to disagree and do nothing. I am sick and tired of this debate, one that seems like Adelaide has had over just about any issue of minor importance. Sick & tired...

[cruel_world00]

If it goes ahead, we will have a tiny Association Football ground (Hindmarsh), a butchered, once heralded and beautiful now mishmash of upgrades ground (Adelaide Oval) and a possibly downgraded, bad located and outdated AFL ground (AAMI). All while spending a heap of tax payer cash that if managed properly could have allowed for a much better outcome.

Sigh. And people wonder why Adelaide is seen as a backwater.

[Will]

Nothing in this city can ever be simple can it.

so lets recap

AAMI is a shit hole, with both clubs experiencing declining crowds, and NOTHING at all to suggest it will reservse anytime soon. PAFC is losing money through poor crowds, the Crows are going to report a LOSS this year, and with decling crowds and membership their situation will only get worse. The SANFL with AAMI being its cashcow will have reduced cashflow, thereby affecting all 9 SANFL clubs of which 3 are in dire trouble. The SANFL does an enourmous amount of grass roots developement so it will affect alot of local clubs too.



So the option is to either stay at AAMI hope for a turn for the better, at the cost of $110m.

or we build a new stadium, at a predicted cost of $1billion dollars. This option would most likely see the government pay a huge amount of money, an investmeny by the SANFL that will equate to a pittance. The moving of the two AFL clubs, perhaps Adelaide United? 3 tenants, a billion dollars. And just down the road you have Adelaide Oval....


Adelaide Oval, a prime located stadium that is currently seeing a new grandstand built. Home to a state cricket team, that sees crowds of perhaps 20-100 people. An upgrade would cost about $500 million. It would see tenants of two afl teams, a state league team, and perhaps Adelaide United one day. It would also condense all future upgrade costs into ONE stadium. Its short term savings would be just as great as its long term savings.




But no, politics is going to play its great role in these events. State, SANFL, SACA, everyday arm chair politician & AFL. All squabbling No. No. No, nothing can ever be simple in this joint. Lets argue, agree to disagree and do nothing. I am sick and tired of this debate, one that seems like Adelaide has had over just about any issue of minor importance. Sick & tired...

I have said it once, and I'll say it again. This idea that we somehow need 1 cricket stadium, 1 AFL stadium and 1 soccer stadium is absurd. Somehow, they are able to play all 3 sports at the MCG without the world ending. And yet, here I have a feeling that because of our ingrained pissant attitude, and excessive whinging, I am starting to feel that this whole project will collapse and nothing will happen.

Furthermore, I can't understand how some people can be in support of spending $1 billion for a AFL ONLY stadium, and yet make screams of 'too expensive!' for a stadium costing half of that and which will house BOTH cricket and AFL, and possibly soccer?!

[crawf]

Agree 100% JamesXander

It annoys the f*ck out of me that other cities seem to get things done while here in Adelaide we like to have a thousand discussions before we even start a project. This is just turning into another Tramline extension, Victoria Park, LeCornu Site, Victoria Square, RAH saga - it is really getting beyond pathetic and boring.

I am starting to loss confidence in this project, and should say I am starting to loss confidence in this whole city.

[stumpjumper]

JamesXander, Will and Crawf

With respect, you guys are several posts/weeks/evolutions behind the times, but in another way you're in the right place.

The concept of 'build it all in the one place to suit everyone and that place is Adelaide Oval' is simply trying to load too much onto that site. I suspect that you're really talking about $1.5 billion to set the place up properly with all the compromises resolved.

What we've never done, in my opinion, is to go back to basics and ask: 'What arena facilities do we need?'

If we could do that, then the reasoning might go like this:

Cricket seems to be well-served by the present Adelaide Oval setup, despite the grandiose dreams of Ian McLachlan and SACA's self-inflicted debt. Cricket gets tiny to small crowds most of the time, with larger and occasional sellout crowds for international and Test matches. No compelling reason to do much for cricket.

AFL/SANFL footy (SANFL at least) made a play years ago with AAMI. To an extent, AAMI is now a bed in which they must now lie. They could sell AAMI as Waverley was sold, or spend money on it. AAMI is not near the city centre. OK, I believe that was mentioned but overruled when the stadium was built. However, it does have ample parking, and with a light rail/tram extension from the city it could be a goer. Say $200 mill for the transport and $200 million on the stadium for a start. We'd have an AFL oval of national standard, and a good cricket ground. For footy to turn its back on AAMI and try to get set at Adelaide Oval would require a huge co-investment in oval facilities, transport and parking (SACA has no money, so it would be public investment).

FIA football or soccer - I'll call it soccer. The game is growing, and Hindmarsh has probably reached its limits. We might get the World Cup in 2018 or 2022.

So, the sensible course is to look at options, but wait until the FIA decision in Dec 2010 about the WC.

If we do get the WC, and decide we want to host matches (which I suggest we do) then the choice is whether to try to create FIFA compliant facilities at AO, AAMI or stand alone.

Stand alone is probably the cheapest choice, with a new rectangular stadium giving us a flexible stadium for rugby codes, hockey, athletics and general entertainment as well. A fully shaded, lit stadium would cost under $300 million (plus land).

Converting the oval AAMI to rectangular FIFA compliance is problematic. The MCC works because it is a tall, circular stadium. Whether the action inside occurs on a soccer pitch or an AFL oval doesn't make much difference to the bulk of seats. AAMI lacks the seats, the sightlines and the extent of facilities to reach FIFA compliance easily or cheaply, with poor transport exacerbating the problem.

Adelaide Oval presents expensive problems on all counts. Older but still sound buildings, limitations on parking, heritage constraints, a broke lessee, poor transport despite CBD location.

So, sport politics and political politics aside, we should spend about $300 million on a stand alone stadium.

But in SA, we usually put politics first. So, with self-interested representatives lining up from SACA, AFL, SANFL plus of course Labor and Liberal, we are now trying to ram a square peg into a round hole at Adelaide Oval.

Now, having got ourselves into a mess, we will increasingly hear the shouts from the 'just build it' brigade.

My suggestion, before we commit our future to the experts who blew out the Western Grandstand development from $50 million to $135 million, is to take a very deep breath, put the present dispute aside, forget sports politics and Labor/Liberal politics and make a rational decision about what to do.

[Stubbo]

Good point about hockey SJ, although I think they might play on different surfaces.

Is it feasable that a purpose built rectangle stadium could also house athletics? If so, why not redo Santos Stadium? Then you would have significant useage through athletics plus Adelaide FC? A friend at my work is at Santos every couple of weeks with state athletics events. Seems like there would be sufficient car parking at Santos, not sure about public transport though.

Hey wait a minute.... Why not make a fully demountable stadium, we can put it up prior to the Soccer Season, then take it down afterwards, maybe in West Parklands near Mile End Train Station? We seem to be very good at half arsed soloutions like one way expressways and removable buildings that should be fixed in place....

[rhino]

Is it feasable that a purpose built rectangle stadium could also house athletics? If so, why not redo Santos Stadium? Then you would have significant useage through athletics plus Adelaide FC? ....

When Kensington Park was Adelaide's premier Athletics ground, there was a soccer pitch in the middle of it. However, one of the gripes about playing soccer on an oval is that the seating is too far from the pitch. If there is an eight-lane oval athletics track between the pitch and the seating, wouldn't the same problems arise?

[Stubbo]

Is it feasable that a purpose built rectangle stadium could also house athletics? If so, why not redo Santos Stadium? Then you would have significant useage through athletics plus Adelaide FC? ....

When Kensington Park was Adelaide's premier Athletics ground, there was a soccer pitch in the middle of it. However, one of the gripes about playing soccer on an oval is that the seating is too far from the pitch. If there is an eight-lane oval athletics track between the pitch and the seating, wouldn't the same problems arise?

Thats what I assume, but wondered if it was easier than trying to incorporate two oval based sports with a rectangle. I have seen soccer on SBS with athletic tracks around the outside.

I dunno, how about we all go to the pub, have a number of beers, a schnitty and we can then toss a coin, arm wrestle or any other equally proven methods of resolving extremely complex issues that the State Government are employing?

[Waewick]

Utilising Santos stadium isn't as silly as it sounds (ok I say this because i'm saying it and i may sound silly to others...)

its got PT, its accessible and has parking by the bucketload and its v.close to the airport and city.

but as othersaid the size of it may make it unfeasible for soccer but you'd think it would be worth a look.

[rhino]

I dunno, how about we all go to the pub, have a number of beers, a schnitty and we can then toss a coin, arm wrestle or any other equally proven methods of resolving extremely complex issues that the State Government are employing?

I'm in

[Splashmo]

Utilising Santos stadium isn't as silly as it sounds (ok I say this because i'm saying it and i may sound silly to others...)

its got PT, its accessible and has parking by the bucketload and its v.close to the airport and city.

but as othersaid the size of it may make it unfeasible for soccer but you'd think it would be worth a look.

Take a look at Santos Stadium on Google Maps - it's sandwiched on a tiny parcel of land between Sir Donald Bradman Drive, James Congdon Drive and the railway lines. Hindmarsh is far more superior than that and just as easy to get to with the tram line.

[Waewick]

Of the two stadiums I think Hindmarsh is much more “sandwiched” than Santos

If you go by Google maps Santos stadium also has substantial room for upgrading, whilst the distance between Railway yard and the edge of the stadium boundary is close there is plenty of room for seating to be constructed, heck that footprint is nearly as big as AAMI, look how much room there is between the end of the racing tracks and the boundary of the stadium. Hindmarsh has no room full stop.

Santos also has what Hindmarsh doesn’t…parking! And I would argue that Santos is more conveniently located especially if we are argueing about interstate travellers, that would be one of the easiest trips in the country in terms of airport to stadium or even CBD to stadium.

Look its pie in the sky, it will never happen but for me theoretically Santos > Hindmarsh. Saying that i'm sure people more learned in the ways of stadium construction will fill me in

[stumpjumper]

I've mentioned Santos Stadium a few times. It happens to have a FIFA pitch inside it already. What would it cost to underground Sir D Bradman Drive?

The way to mix athletics and soccer without putting the spectators too far from the action is to raise the seating then use temp seating to cover the track.

I'll try to give as much info as I can without pissing people off (not people on this forum).

I'll be in the beers too.

[rev]

IMO the issue is this nonsense about the hill, the fig trees, and that crappy old scoreboard. As if a grassy hill, some trees, and an old scoreboard are unique to Adelaide.
Who the hell knows about them outside of Adelaide and a few people around the country? Or who actually cares...? It's not like those things are drawing droves of tourists to Adelaide Oval.

They aren't culturally significant sites anyway, unless you consider drunken fights and police dragging people off the hill and down flights of concrete stairs to be culturally important to civilization.

One stadium, multiple sports. That's the solution.

Retractable seating for soccer/rugby.
I'm sure the technology also exists to allow the pitch to be lowered and raised when needed.

If they really want to do something decent, they should upgrade the tennis courts to accommodate the Baksetball and Netball as well.
That would at least make the roof a worthwhile expenditure, because it's not like we are getting an ATP event back any time soon.

And there you go, wham bam we have a great sporting precinct were all the major sporting codes are centered around, who are sharing the costs of the stadia and facilities, rather then the wasteful situation we have now.

They can then sell off Hindmarsh, AAMI, Etsa Park, the Dome.
100-200 million? That's quite a bit of money recovered.

Of course we need a political establishment with a pair of balls first.

I often wonder what would happen if S-A started petitioning, like those parkland preservation groups.

[ricecrackers]

we already have an athletics stadium which is more than suitable ,...this talk of trying to incorporate athletics tracks into a soccer stadium is just a ridiculous waste of time and money. why are we even talking about it? its as if there is this fear that we cant let soccer get a new stadium for themselves out of this.

FIFA (not FIA they're the motorsport body) do not like oval stadiums and do not like athletics tracks around world cup venues. these kinds of stadium are exceptions to the rule. FIFA will be stretched to allow the MCG as part of a successful world cup bid...but they wont extend that allowance to multiple stadiums.

realistically though, longterm I could imagine Rugby Union (less so Rugby League) setting up some sort of a team here. there are still a lot of South Africans migrating here..though less so than Perth.

as for a site...just south of the netball stadium, next to the cemetery, I believe could be developed. the netball stadium could be moved somewhere else...that is not an expensive building to rebuild as its little more than a glorified shed.