News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[Aidan]

You are making the comparison between express bus and current diesel train and current single track.
What would be the difference if the tunnels were fixed and electrified with tilt train rolling stock
capable of doing 160km/hr? Also one has to consider the benefits of electrified rail with lower
emissions, reduced congestion of city streets especially during peak hour. I have driven through
town at peak hour to pick up my wife and the buses are a nightmare...

160km/h running would be very difficult to achieve on such an alignment even before you consider the problems of trying to integrate it with local trains. And even then, express buses are still likely to be quicker than trains simply because their route is 40% shorter!

That's assuming the freight trains that currently use the corridor can magically disappear elsewhere. The whole issue of upgrading the Hills Line is a bit more technically challenging than just whacking up some wires and getting new trains (it's possible of course!). Those issues include the two tracks for interstate and local trains being different gauges, the local trains dealing with a single track and passing loops which makes timetabling important and the restricting heights within at least one of the tunnels along the route.

There's nothing magic about it - the circumstances under which they'd disappear involve construction of a bypass line.

They should be standardising the rail line as part of the electrification on all lines. That would allow them to utilise the other hills line when not in use. With modern switching technology, gps tracking etc i cant see why it would be too difficult. With new diesel electric hybrids they could then use diesel say between mitcham and blackwood and and electric elsewhere.

It costs a lot more to give a train electro diesel capability.

The line should be extended to Mount Barker at least if not Murray Bridge. The sections after say Stirling could be electrified. That way you could use diesel through the tunnels and not have electric wires and supports affecting the goods trains.

Why exactly is it you want the line electrified?

The best way to reduce the journey time between Mount Barker and Adelaide is to construct a tunnel beneath Glen Osmond Rd. But the only way you'd ever attract a lot of train passengers between Mount Barker and Adelaide is to run steam services!

It's best to take advantage of what rail's good at rather than trying to find a way to make it do what it isn't.

[Waewick]

Sorry Aiden, I'm a tad lost on your last paragraph

are you saying steam service as is a cockle train type thing?

I do apologise if you were making the post in jest...the internet can be confusing when it comes to humour

[Aidan]

Sorry Aiden, I'm a tad lost on your last paragraph

are you saying steam service as is a cockle train type thing?

Yes. The Southern Encounter used to run all the way from Adelaide (or at least Keswick) to Victor before the conversion to standard gauge truncated their operations. I hope they will do again eventually. And if they do, why not branch out into commuter services - I'm sure it would attract many passengers onto the railway. I can't, of course, make a convincing economic case for it, but I've no doubt it would be a major attraction and make Mount Barker a more desirable place to live.

But what's really needed is better transport - and while better railways can enormously improve transport to our northern and (especially) southern suburbs, they're not the best way to improve transport to suburbs served by the SE Freeway. A tollway under Glen Osmond Road is.

[ChrisRT]

A bit off topic here, but I do wonder if Mt. Barker will be such an attractive place to live when petrol prices start going up again and pressure on Glen Osmond road continues to increase. There is no easy way to increase transport capacity between the City and Mt. Barker and I don't think a tunnel, as Aidan suggests, would be economically viable. Just look at Brisbane's recent experience with tolled tunnels.

[mattblack]

Or sydney for that matter. Putting in a toll would be political suicide. Not going to happen. If you really want a tunnel Aidan and improve rail service maybe you should look at a tunnel from the Mt Lofty stop under Stirling (where there could also be a underground stop) and through to the median strip of the SE Freeway through to Mt Barker. The freeway would need some widening in some places but there is ample room along most of this streach where you could have express services and higher speeds.

Or create a bus lane down the freeway and Glen Osmond Rd. Much of the roads in London only have 1 lane for cars and a bus lane. Creates congestion yes, but also gets people using P/T because its alot more viable.

Anyhoo, have they started on resleepering the Gawler Line north of Mawson Lakes?

[Isiskii]

The gradients along the freeway are too steep for trains to run through (if you're thinking of a setup, similar to how they do it in Perth along the Mitchell and Kiwiana Freeways.) However, having said that - I think that beyong Hahndorf, the gradient is a bit more accomodating - except in between valleys which they could just simply build a bridge.

[Aidan]

A bit off topic here,

Agreed - transport to Mount Barker is an important topic, but it has little to do with Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network. Therefore I'm suggesting the moderators split this thread.

but I do wonder if Mt. Barker will be such an attractive place to live when petrol prices start going up again and pressure on Glen Osmond road continues to increase.

Yes it will. Firstly the efficiency of cars is increasing, so higher petrol prices won't be such a problem. Secondly if more expensive petrol does deter some motorists, parking will probably become cheaper. And thirdly, you won't need to drive there anyway, as there are good bus services.

There is no easy way to increase transport capacity between the City and Mt. Barker and I don't think a tunnel, as Aidan suggests, would be economically viable. Just look at Brisbane's recent experience with tolled tunnels.

The financial case for one Brisbane tollway is not currently anywhere near as good as predicted, but they're still building underground tollways in Brisbane!

Or sydney for that matter. Putting in a toll would be political suicide. Not going to happen.

Sydney's Cross City Tunnel is politically very unpopular, but that's mainly due to the toll rate being high from the outset and the associated road remodelling preventing people from going the old way. Anyway the Sydney CBD is nothing like Glen Osmond Road. I think a more appropriate Sydney comparison would be the Lane Cove Tunnel, which is generally regarded as a vital part of Sydney's infrastructure.

If you really want a tunnel Aidan and improve rail service maybe you should look at a tunnel from the Mt Lofty stop under Stirling (where there could also be a underground stop) and through to the median strip of the SE Freeway through to Mt Barker. The freeway would need some widening in some places but there is ample room along most of this streach where you could have express services and higher speeds.

I admit I'd never considered running a tunnel under Stirling from the highest point on the line! The gradients appear to be manageable, but because the trains would still detour via Belair and Blackwood, they'd still take longer than the buses.

Or create a bus lane down the freeway and Glen Osmond Rd. Much of the roads in London only have 1 lane for cars and a bus lane. Creates congestion yes, but also gets people using P/T because its alot more viable.

The roads in London where 1 lane of 2 each way has been turned into a bus lane generally aren't the ones that connect the CBD with the ends of freeways!

Anyway, are you seriously suggesting that the public would support reducing Glen Osmond Road to 1 lane each way plus bus lanes if the traffic using it had no other alternative, but would oppose the construction of an alternative that they had to pay to use?

[ChrisRT]

Yes it will. Firstly the efficiency of cars is increasing, so higher petrol prices won't be such a problem. Secondly if more expensive petrol does deter some motorists, parking will probably become cheaper. And thirdly, you won't need to drive there anyway, as there are good bus services.

A significant modal shift from cars to buses would ease congestion but many people simply don't like catching buses and will tolerate significant congestion before taking the bus (can you point to any examples in the world where a significant modal shift from cars to buses has occurred?).

Re fuel efficiency, that really depends how fast the manufacturers can come out with these more efficient cars vs how fast petrol prices go up. Furthermore, electric and fuel efficient cars get stuck in traffic just like any other car and Glen Osmond road certainly isn't getting any wider.

Building a tunnel would also put more population pressure on hills communities which are already vehemently against planned population growth without a tunnel (!!).

(BTW - apologies to anyone who opens this expecting to read something about Electrification and Resleepering of TransAdelaide Network )

[The Scooter Guy]

I think that the electrification would mean more sub-stations to avoid consuming too much power.

[muzzamo]

Some photos of the Hallett Cove upgrade. Click to make them bigger.

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[muzzamo]

A good view of the eastern carpark.

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reconstruction of the eastern platform.

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[crawf]

Taken from the New Connections Spring 2010 edition



Believe this will be one of the new Seaford Stations[/QUOTE]

[Port Adelaide Fan]

CITY train travellers have been promised a smoother and faster ride as 66 new electric shuttles are added to Adelaide's network.

The new trains will have a top speed of 110km/h with faster acceleration and deceleration and performance that leads to significant power savings.

They will feature an array of on-board technology including Smartcard ticketing capability and CCTV while also being fully disability accessible.

They will also be designed to meet Adelaide's extreme heat demands both in operation and in customer air-conditioning.

Transport Minister Pat Conlon today said final negotiations were underway with Bombardier Transportation Australia to provide the new electric railcars.

"This is a key component of the State Government's $2.6 billion investment in the city's public transport, an investment that is progressively transforming it into a state-of-the-art system, he said.

more: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 5953691506

[Will]

[AG]

Looks like... Bombardier's standard design (with some different technical specifications) which has already been used on about 3 other series of trains operating elsewhere in Australia, in Perth, Brisbane and rural Victoria.