COM: Glenelg Tramline Upgrade

[Algernon]

The fact that this is being discussed is the most controversial issue for mine. In other cities these things Just Happen. In Adelaide you have to fight about it for years. :wank:

Froggy, we've heard your thoughts about the 30 million tram linkage between Glenelg and the Adelaide railway station. Now tell me your thoughts on 70 million for the Adelaide Oval to increase capacity which will never be used. You seem to be the bastion for responsible public spending, presumably because you are the sole contributor to this state's tax revenue. Have a rip in to the SACA for us, I know i'd be listening. 70 farken million on an unused grandstand for SACA members. That could've gone a long way to further tram extensions, such as the extremely well patronised Henley Beach Road and Parade bus routes which would benefit enormously from fixed infrastructure.

[AG]

Yes, that does annoy me as well when people create one massive fuss and protest over a project that costs a drop in the ocean, when there are other "pointless" projects that cost more going on both locally and interstate, yet we hear nothing about that. It's just a silly debate fuelled by the media that has been blown out of proportion and many silly Adelaideans have been sucked into what the media has said.

I could go on about other projects as well. How about that useless $57 million grade separation project in Melbourne's east that involves removing one level crossing and rebuilding one station? Or the several billion going into creating new platforms and tracks on Sydney's rail system? That's money that could be going into the health and education system, right? Well, the way people are carrying on about infrastructure improvement projects I think some people do need better education.

[Froggy]

You obviously are delirious about where people go in the city.

Looks like you are as well.

I have already said that people will use the tram FROM the railway station and will use it to either Rundle Mall or Glenelg. People already use the Beeline for the same reason and you also have to deal with the return flow as well. People on the Glenelg line who also need to make a connection as well with a train or to go to Rundle Mall.

From the train station you can walk through and come out on hindley st and walk a little way up the street to rundle mall, you have to be kidding if you think people are going to catch it to go this piddly distance. If it's going to stop at every street in between the station and vic square that is going to make it even more useless.

Can I ask you Froggy, have you ever used public transport? If you say yes, how many years ago? With TransAdelaide, the STA or even the SAR/MTT? It honestly sounds as if you have no clue what you are going on about. People will use public transport in a city like Adelaide if it is available.

Yes I have used public transport, why must I have not used it to not want a useless tram line? I have used it several times this year. What I found funny last night was the speed in which a bus could go down jetty road compared to the tram "Tram's will fix everything" lol.. not.

[Froggy]

The fact that this is being discussed is the most controversial issue for mine. In other cities these things Just Happen. In Adelaide you have to fight about it for years. :wank:

Froggy, we've heard your thoughts about the 30 million tram linkage between Glenelg and the Adelaide railway station. Now tell me your thoughts on 70 million for the Adelaide Oval to increase capacity which will never be used. You seem to be the bastion for responsible public spending, presumably because you are the sole contributor to this state's tax revenue. Have a rip in to the SACA for us, I know i'd be listening. 70 farken million on an unused grandstand for SACA members. That could've gone a long way to further tram extensions, such as the extremely well patronised Henley Beach Road and Parade bus routes which would benefit enormously from fixed infrastructure.

I can't say I know much about the SACA's proposed upgrade, is it just for the stand or to rebuild the facilities as well for training and changerooms? I'm of the view that the SACA should contribute more than half of it so no I don't agree with the upgrade but at least I know it'll be used. Just like upgrading AAMI stadium, it'll be used. There's another thing that I got just as shitty about, creating a fucking busway to AAMI stadium, now why would you not use the same money and extend the train line straight into the stadium.

I love it how you all get so shitty on here because someone doesn't have the same opinion as you guys.

[Froggy]

I don't think you guys realise it's not all about just the cost of it, it's one factor, it's the changes it's making and the disruption to traffic and the fact that there is no point for it. It's the government going through with it despite overwhelming public disagreement with the project.

[Will409]

Froggy, is your real name Richard Abbott by any chance?

[Froggy]

No, is your name Mike Rann by any chance?

[AG]

I don't think you guys realise it's not all about just the cost of it, it's one factor, it's the changes it's making and the disruption to traffic and the fact that there is no point for it. It's the government going through with it despite overwhelming public disagreement with the project.

With any such project preventing any sort of disruption is inevitable. It has to be done while other infrastructure around it must remain in operation. With this sort of project, there's two options. Shut down the entire area around the construction site for up to several weeks just to get construction done quickly is one. The other is to keep infrastructure operational to a lower capacity to allow the works to be done gradually. In this project's case, the first choice isn't really an option.

Take the Middleborough Road Grade Separation project for example. It simply wasn't possible to have both the railway and the roads in question operational. So they closed them both and did the project in just 4 weeks. In any case there is going to be disruption. But think of it this way - It's short term loss for long term gain. You have to look deeper into the project as being something for economic and environmental (although it isn't obvious from the removal of some trees) gain rather than just socially and from the view of "What's in it for me?". It's not simply for joyriders.

[Al]

I'm quite enjoying this flamefest.

[alfer7_3]

This article is a couple of years old but i just wanted to compare it to the glenelg tramline extension as it is similar project in cost and distance. this article seems positive in contrast to all the negative bullshit the advertiser says about the glenelg tramline extension. I'm sick of all the negative crap about the glenelg tramline extension when its ONLY $30 Million. this article says nothing about opposition which is in complete contrast to what the advertiser always says about the extension here. i find it interesting at the different metalities about development in the eastern state cities compared to here. And by the way did anyone see the short article in todays sunday mail about a protest against the tramline at parliament house happening this week. Whats the point of protesting against something thats going to happen anway! its a waste of time. i don't undestand why anyone would waste their time being against this projet. can't wait for it bring it on!

MELBOURNE’S NEW TRAMLINE UNVEILED

The new $28 million state-of-the-art Box Hill tram extension between Mont Albert and Box Hill, expected to carry 330,000 passengers a year, was launched today by the Premier, Steve Bracks.

Speaking at the launch, Mr Bracks said the 2.2 kilometre extension represented a significant boost to public transport in Melbourne’s eastern suburbs.

“The tram extension will form a welcome link for Melbourne’s east, providing residents and visitors with more transport options and easier access to local shopping and leisure activities,â€

[Froggy]

alfer it is totally different in Melbourne, the city is huge compared to Adelaide and the tram system is extensive so an upgrade to that is not an issue. It IS an issue in a town of our size, finger print on the city, Jane Lomax Smith's to be precise.

[AG]

The area in question is home to some 75000 workers and several thousand residents. The area referred to in the article above is an area in Melbourne's eastern suburbs that serves only several hundred people a day. If thats any comparison to go by, then the section of tram line in Adelaide to be expanded on will see at least several times as many passengers on an average day.

It's not the entire city in question, it's the area that it's located in. You can go on all you like about how Melbourne is larger than Adelaide about the extension, but no resident from Frankston in their rightful mind would really care what's happening in Box Hill (assuming they don't work there of course) as the extension doesn't really impact on 99.99% of the city's population.

[Ho Really]

I'm really curious if they let those plane trees in the middle of North Terrace grow for a few more years the trunk would be taller. They could then lop off the lower branches instead of chopping the whole tree down. Wouldn't there be enough clearance then or is this wishful thinking? Could it be they are afraid of the possibility of wild storms bringing down branches?

Cheers

[Will]

I don't think you guys realise it's not all about just the cost of it, it's one factor, it's the changes it's making and the disruption to traffic and the fact that there is no point for it. It's the government going through with it despite overwhelming public disagreement with the project.

Froggy, you are complaining about the changes that the tram extension will make as well as the disruption to traffic.

Are you saying that developments should be opposed on the fact that it may cause disruption to traffic!? What an absurd and incredibly selfish mentality. So because the tramline is going to add an extra 1 or 2 minutes to your travel time, it should therefore be cancelled? If development disrupts your standard of life, you should consider a move to some quaint village. Furthermore you are complaining about the changes that the tram extension is making. What is that supposed to mean? Should we stagnate Adelaide and keep it as some giant museum? Change is inevitable and required if Adelaide is to prosper.

[James Renfrey]

HERE IS THE FULL TEXT OF RICHARD ABBOTT'S EMAIL, which I received because I have engaged him in debate. He lives in the city, and claims to be pro tram, but not THAT one............. .
************************************************************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:00:53 +1030
From: "Richard Abbott" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: CAN YOU PLEASE NOW RALLY Wed 21st February 1pm against the tramline extension?

Please pass on the word and this email to friends that the rally against the tramline extension will be Wed 21st February 1pm, steps parliament house.

Just before question time at 2 pm, when media can be present.

Please respond TO <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] if you can attend and the numbers that you can bring.

It is the last chance to be heard or forever remove the notrams topic from the dinner table and air waves!

(You will notice a slightly different email address sent this to you as gmail only allows 400 emails out per day....... and I have many more emails than that to send out....)

Richard Abbott
************************************************************************************************************************

EVERY ONE WHO CAN BE PRESENT TO SUPPORT THE TRAM EXTENSION SHOULD TRY TO BE THERE, preferably with placards and loud hailers. Let's give some real opposition to the neanderthal troglodytes who resist all progressive moves in this city, and show the S.A. Government that we support their efforts to improve our long neglected public transport system.

(':lol:')I am considering starting a movement to have all buses using King William Street re-routed via the terraces. Just think how quiet and pollution and congestion free it would be with only the trams to glide along the centre!

As for the passengers from other suburbs, let them walk to the Mall and the station just as we Glenelg line passengers have had to do since the tram system was abandoned.(':D')

And Froggy! If you can't sustain a sensible argument, for goodness sake be silent. If your nickname implies that you are French, then you should know that several French cities, including Nice, Perpignan and Paris, are currently replacing buses with trams as they are so much more efficient at moving people.

I've caught modern trams in small cities like Freiburg and Bilbao, where every station has a multi-language ticket machine which gives change to any combination of notes and coins, a clock tower visible to all passers by, real time traffic information and comfortable sheltered seating. They make our upgraded Glenelg line stops look positively primitive. Travel a little with your eyes and mind open. You'd be surprised at how much you might learn.