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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 12:46 pm
by Waewick
PeFe wrote:What...I mean WHAT has this got to do with South Australia?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
It is interesting i guess.
Most people who understand their electricity bills probably understand why they are high at the moment anyway.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:56 pm
by rubberman
PeFe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 12:06 pm
What...I mean WHAT has this got to do with South Australia?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
What it's got to do with is the constant assertion by some here that renewables have caused price increases.
It's mentioned over and over again.
So, looking at other jurisdictions shows that there's very little correlation between renewables penetration and electricity prices.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 5:23 pm
by abc
rubberman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:56 pm
PeFe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 12:06 pm
What...I mean WHAT has this got to do with South Australia?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
What it's got to do with is the constant assertion by some here that renewables have caused price increases.
It's mentioned over and over again.
So, looking at other jurisdictions shows that there's very little correlation between renewables penetration and electricity prices.
your logic is flawed when you're comparing hydro electricity + woodfire burning to solar power and wind turbines.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 5:45 pm
by rubberman
abc wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 5:23 pm
rubberman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:56 pm
PeFe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 12:06 pm
What...I mean WHAT has this got to do with South Australia?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
What it's got to do with is the constant assertion by some here that renewables have caused price increases.
It's mentioned over and over again.
So, looking at other jurisdictions shows that there's very little correlation between renewables penetration and electricity prices.
your logic is flawed when you're comparing hydro electricity + woodfire burning to solar power and wind turbines.
My point, which you missed, is that there doesn't seem to be a correlation between renewables percentage and price.
Further, talking about logic, flawed or not, surely those who have stated that they think renewables are more expensive than fossil fuels need to provide some logic to back up their assertions. Should they wish to be believed.
I believe in free speech, so, if someone wants to handwave and assert that renewables caused price rises, good for them. However, I haven't seen much in the way of logical arguments to support their opinions.
I am more than happy for people to come up with examples where renewables percentage correlates with price, allowing for factors such as gas prices, coal plant maintenance and other like factors.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 5:54 pm
by abc
rubberman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 5:45 pm
abc wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 5:23 pm
rubberman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:56 pm
What it's got to do with is the constant assertion by some here that renewables have caused price increases.
It's mentioned over and over again.
So, looking at other jurisdictions shows that there's very little correlation between renewables penetration and electricity prices.
your logic is flawed when you're comparing hydro electricity + woodfire burning to solar power and wind turbines.
My point, which you missed, is that there doesn't seem to be a correlation between renewables percentage and price.
Further, talking about logic, flawed or not, surely those who have stated that they think renewables are more expensive than fossil fuels need to provide some logic to back up their assertions. Should they wish to be believed.
I believe in free speech, so, if someone wants to handwave and assert that renewables caused price rises, good for them. However, I haven't seen much in the way of logical arguments to support their opinions.
I am more than happy for people to come up with examples where renewables percentage correlates with price, allowing for factors such as gas prices, coal plant maintenance and other like factors.
there is a correlation when you are pricing certain renewables vs others
eg hydro and woodfire is a lot cheaper than solar + wind turbines... but we don't have mountain streams in SA to source hydro from
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:08 pm
by Jaymz
I'm not here to join any side of the argument, just post some facts.
My latest electricity bill for the June '24 has just arrived. My usage compared to June quarter '23 was down 2.5%, actual bill 11.5% more. This is also taking into consideration that my daily supply charge has only increased 5.5%.
So is the cause of this rise purely due to gas generation? Interested to hear any ideas on what may have caused it.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:33 pm
by abc
I'll give you three guesses to what might have caused global gas prices to rise...
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:45 pm
by rubberman
abc wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:33 pm
I'll give you three guesses to what might have caused global gas prices to rise...
Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:53 pm
by abc
rubberman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:45 pm
abc wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:33 pm
I'll give you three guesses to what might have caused global gas prices to rise...
Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.
we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal
now put 2 and 2 together
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:07 pm
by rubberman
abc wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:53 pm
rubberman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:45 pm
abc wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:33 pm
I'll give you three guesses to what might have caused global gas prices to rise...
Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.
we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal
now put 2 and 2 together
We are a massive gas producer. Gas should be cheaper. We could have had domestic use reserves. But we didn't. Not sure how one can blame renewables for policy failure when we produce enough gas for it to be cheap.
As for shutting down coal. Yep. We've had major failures and "maintenance " problems. Also a factor in high prices. It's almost as if coal isn't as reliable as an energy source...meaning the sooner we lose reliance on coal, the better.
So. So far. Reasons for high prices: Putin's invasion of Ukraine, lack of gas reservation policy, coal plants becoming less reliable as they age.
None if which implicates renewables.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2024 12:54 am
by SBD
abc wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:53 pm
rubberman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:45 pm
abc wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:33 pm
I'll give you three guesses to what might have caused global gas prices to rise...
Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.
we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal
now put 2 and 2 together
Your chart doesn't show 2016 when the Northern Power Station closed, and the price shown declined slightly from the beginning of the chart in January 2019 to about January 2021. I don't see a correlation with shutting down coal in that chart.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2024 12:54 am
by abc
rubberman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 7:07 pm
abc wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:53 pm
rubberman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:45 pm
Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.
we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal
now put 2 and 2 together
We are a massive gas producer. Gas should be cheaper. We could have had domestic use reserves. But we didn't. Not sure how one can blame renewables for policy failure when we produce enough gas for it to be cheap.
As for shutting down coal. Yep. We've had major failures and "maintenance " problems. Also a factor in high prices. It's almost as if coal isn't as reliable as an energy source...meaning the sooner we lose reliance on coal, the better.
So. So far. Reasons for high prices: Putin's invasion of Ukraine, lack of gas reservation policy, coal plants becoming less reliable as they age.
None if which implicates renewables.
world gas prices affect gas prices worldwide as the market is global... if there's a shortage O/S our domestic gas prices go up
this is the same for all commodities
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2024 12:56 am
by abc
SBD wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 12:54 am
abc wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:53 pm
rubberman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:45 pm
Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.
we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal
now put 2 and 2 together
Your chart doesn't show 2016 when the Northern Power Station closed, and the price shown declined slightly from the beginning of the chart in January 2019 to about January 2021. I don't see a correlation with shutting down coal in that chart.
oh boy...
I think you need to go back and read the book again from the beginning
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2024 6:01 pm
by Waewick
SBD wrote:abc wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:53 pm
rubberman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 6:45 pm
Well, obviously, it couldn't have been Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
Because if that were the case, the present high prices of electricity would be due to Russia. Not renewables.
we became more dependent on gas when we shutdown coal
now put 2 and 2 together
Your chart doesn't show 2016 when the Northern Power Station closed, and the price shown declined slightly from the beginning of the chart in January 2019 to about January 2021. I don't see a correlation with shutting down coal in that chart.
You can summarise why we have high powerr prices fairly easily
We had, for a decade an Govt that was ideologically anti Renewables and too incompetent to deliver anything else.
Its attempt to build a gas powered station, despite the market not wanting to be involved resulted in the disaster that is snowy 2.0.
We are now left with aging coal fired generation that continues to deliver high cost energy.
The same party is now trying to tie us into higher prices by building Nuclear Power that no investors would touch.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2024 1:26 am
by rev
Mmmhh, apparently anything that isn't renewable, is costly, and everything renewable is apparently free...