News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Record renewable power generation in South Australia today.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-and-so ... -heatwave/
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-and-so ... -heatwave/
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
And record high costs to households and businesses too.PeFe wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 9:23 pmRecord renewable power generation in South Australia today.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-and-so ... -heatwave/
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Source?rev wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 10:43 pmAnd record high costs to households and businesses too.PeFe wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 9:23 pmRecord renewable power generation in South Australia today.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-and-so ... -heatwave/
The last 24 hours of wholesale electricity prices in South Australia
https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/ ... Simplified
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
PeFe wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 11:02 pmSource?rev wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 10:43 pmAnd record high costs to households and businesses too.PeFe wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 9:23 pmRecord renewable power generation in South Australia today.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-and-so ... -heatwave/
The last 24 hours of wholesale electricity prices in South Australia
Screenshot_20241216-232845~2.png
https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/ ... Simplified
Do consumers pay wholesale prices?
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
No of course but they are the basis of electricity prices. The formula to get to retail is a lot more complicated.rev wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:53 amPeFe wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 11:02 pmSource?
The last 24 hours of wholesale electricity prices in South Australia
Screenshot_20241216-232845~2.png
https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/ ... Simplified
Do consumers pay wholesale prices?
"Record high costs"....
Source?
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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
There was a recent article in the Age which broke down the various components of power costs. The cost of generation was not the largest part. Somewhere near a third.PeFe wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 9:18 amNo of course but they are the basis of electricity prices. The formula to get to retail is a lot more complicated.rev wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:53 amPeFe wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 11:02 pm
Source?
The last 24 hours of wholesale electricity prices in South Australia
Screenshot_20241216-232845~2.png
https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/ ... Simplified
Do consumers pay wholesale prices?
"Record high costs"....
Source?
Of course, that makes claims that renewables are to blame for high prices somewhat laughable. If prices are high, people need to look at the other two thirds of the price for reasons as well. But given that the wholesale prices for renewables are lower than fossil fuels, it's simply ridiculous to blame them for high prices.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
It's well established we have some of the highest power prices in the country.PeFe wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 9:18 amNo of course but they are the basis of electricity prices. The formula to get to retail is a lot more complicated.rev wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:53 amPeFe wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 11:02 pm
Source?
The last 24 hours of wholesale electricity prices in South Australia
Screenshot_20241216-232845~2.png
https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/ ... Simplified
Do consumers pay wholesale prices?
"Record high costs"....
Source?
-
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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
It's also well established that we have wholesale prices that aren't the highest in the country.
So, logically, if final prices are the highest, and wholesale prices are not, then it's the profit, admin, transmission charges that are higher.
However, all of those are controlled by private companies.
I can understand the frustration of people being charged excessive prices for profits, admin and transmission, but that's what happens when public assets are sold. Voters no longer control prices...or at least in principle, should not under a capitalist system.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
So a simple issue of consumers being rorted by power companies?rubberman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:19 pmIt's also well established that we have wholesale prices that aren't the highest in the country.
So, logically, if final prices are the highest, and wholesale prices are not, then it's the profit, admin, transmission charges that are higher.
However, all of those are controlled by private companies.
I can understand the frustration of people being charged excessive prices for profits, admin and transmission, but that's what happens when public assets are sold. Voters no longer control prices...or at least in principle, should not under a capitalist system.
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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
What other conclusion is possible? If it is mathematically true AND that private companies are required to maximise shareholder value, what other conclusion is more likely?rev wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:44 pmSo a simple issue of consumers being rorted by power companies?rubberman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:19 pmIt's also well established that we have wholesale prices that aren't the highest in the country.
So, logically, if final prices are the highest, and wholesale prices are not, then it's the profit, admin, transmission charges that are higher.
However, all of those are controlled by private companies.
I can understand the frustration of people being charged excessive prices for profits, admin and transmission, but that's what happens when public assets are sold. Voters no longer control prices...or at least in principle, should not under a capitalist system.
If a private company can charge more for its product, why wouldn't it? Why should a private company care about struggling families more than its shareholders when it's got a duty to those shareholders?
Isn't this obvious?
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-eco ... 5kyh7.htmlrubberman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:13 amThere was a recent article in the Age which broke down the various components of power costs. The cost of generation was not the largest part. Somewhere near a third.
Of course, that makes claims that renewables are to blame for high prices somewhat laughable. If prices are high, people need to look at the other two thirds of the price for reasons as well. But given that the wholesale prices for renewables are lower than fossil fuels, it's simply ridiculous to blame them for high prices.
Keep Adelaide Weird
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
I believe that the recent upgrade/replacement of the power line to Olympic Dam is owned by BHP. Solar generators along the route have to pay for access. in contrast, the upgraded line down the east coast of Eyre Peninsula was funded by SAPN/state government to maintain reliable supply to Port Lincoln, and a side benefit is that it will allow more wind farm on southern Eyre Peninsula.rubberman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 5:54 pmIf someone wants to build a bunch of solar panels at Woop Woop, who else should pay for them to connect to the network? Further, anyone building subdivision development must pay for infrastructure connection. This is pretty standard.claybro wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 2:15 pmWhen you say "promoters" I assume you mean that large industrial users should pay for or contribute to the transmission lines themselves? Fair enough- but historically, when the state wanted to attract heavy industry, the state paid for the energy infrastructure. It seems to be your position that renewables do not require large upgrades and new transmission infrastructure and this appears to be at odds with what is actually being planned.rubberman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 1:21 pm
Exactly. Each of those require transmission line upgrading. They should be paid for by the promoters in the case of the solar farms and mine. In which case, why would that increase power bills for domestic consumers?
As for the line to Wudinna, if it needs upgrading, what's that got to do with renewables? If there's more demand, or it's falling apart, then it's going to have to be replaced anyway: renewables, or coal, or gas, or nuclear, make no difference.
It's remarkably frustrating when people start saying renewables are going to cost huge amounts of money, and then every example brought up is either very small, or something totally unrelated to renewables, or something with a much cheaper fix than proposed.
Well, yes. Transmission companies are proposing to spend a lot of money, and then charge us. So, should we just accept it? If we do, then let's not then start whinging about electricity prices.
As an aside, a few mainstream media outlets have published analyses of power prices. Funnily enough, profits are about 2.5 times the cost of actual generation. So much for people blaming renewables.
I'd expect that a new iron mine would be asked to throw in a large chunk of money for any required upgrades, the same as a farmer pays for extension/upgrade of the grid to provide more electricity to their farm. Sometimes, that cost is enough to stop the upgrade.
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
Australia's future under net zero
tired of low IQ hacks
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
What the hell is that? A graph suggesting Germany would face a energy shortage impacting economic performance sometime in the future???? Is that what it's meant to be??
And how is this relevant to Australia?
And even more importantly how is it relevant to South Australia?
Here is something to think about...I have posted this before so it's an oldie...but a goldie...
South Australia, 2002, 100% fossil fuel driven economy, 7% unemployment
South Australia, 2024, 72% renewable driven economy, 3.9% unemployment
Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure
comprehension lesson:PeFe wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2024 11:17 amWhat the hell is that? A graph suggesting Germany would face a energy shortage impacting economic performance sometime in the future???? Is that what it's meant to be??
And how is this relevant to Australia?
And even more importantly how is it relevant to South Australia?
Here is something to think about...I have posted this before so it's an oldie...but a goldie...
South Australia, 2002, 100% fossil fuel driven economy, 7% unemployment
South Australia, 2024, 72% renewable driven economy, 3.9% unemployment
no its a historical graph of what has actually occurred in Germany as a portent to the future of Australia
the economy is in freefall due to adherence to the same energy policies that Australia is now implementing
tired of low IQ hacks
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