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Rubberman are you saying they may intend/could use this part of the tram track (and any extension) for buses also? Would it fit buses going in both directions?

claybro wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:17 pm

rubberman wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:42 pm

claybro wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:05 pm

Haven't been following this closely, and apologies if I missed earlier in the thread, but is there any specific reason they have switched to side platforms for the East end rather than centre platforms as used everywhere else in the CBD? Operationally I'm sure the side platforms are better if 2 opposing trams happen to arrive at the same time, but I think the centre platforms look better as in KWS.

If you use side platforms (like most tram operators on the planet do), you can run buses on the tram tracks, either as substitutes ror when trams aren't running, or to take buses off the roads.

Thus, when the trams were stopped from Vic Square to the Entertainment Centre, the buses couldn't use the existing tram stops down Port Road. Thus, extra buses down an already crowded Port Road, while the track and tram stops were unused.

Were those stops side entry, not only could trams use the stops, but also other Port Road and Grange Road buses (and their stops) could use the tram lane as a de-facto busway. Faster for tram travellers, less buses on Port Road car lanes. But centre stops.

If the Liberals had any get up and go in them, they'd promise to slash travel times down the Port Road and Grange Road, plus remove most buses from the car and truck lanes by doing this. It would be cheaper than the O-Bahn tunnel , and probably save as much time. That is, if the Liberals had any get up and go in them.

Thanks for the reply rubberman. I do get that side platforms are the preferred operational option, but I guess I am just confused as to why, having committed to centre platforms everywhere else on the extension...suddenly they are back to side loading.
As for the Liberals and anything with steel wheels on steel tracks...

I actually don't believe it has anything to do with buses being able to use these stops (sure, it's convenient that it works this way but that's not the purpose for doing it like this). It's a safety thing, as you'll notice with the central platforms (particularly the Rundle Mall stop), people walk off the tram and straight onto the road, they don't cross with the lights which is mostly due to the fact that there is such a narrow path to get to the traffic lights on these platforms. With side platforms, it spreads out the load of passengers, allowing for more people to be on either platform at any particular time. It forces pedestrians (in most cases) to use the designated crossings to get to the side of the road (not crossing in front of moving cars and/or trams. The only downside to these kinds of platforms (as I have seen in Melbourne) is people who are on the wrong side for the direction they wish to go, crossing over where the tram would stop rather than walking a few metres and cross at the designated crossing.

Aside from the perks of substitute buses they also provide a zip corridor for emergency services to get through heavy traffic.

I get what you mean about the swap from central to side, I think the reason they went with central platforms back ten years ago along KWS is purely aesthetics. In the future when they need to replace track along KWS, I'd actually encourage them changing KWS to side platforms even if it involves taking up a little more room along the strip. I'd also encourage them installing a size platform when they replace the city south stop in the not too distant future. They're so much more efficient!

how good is he wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:51 pm

Rubberman are you saying they may intend/could use this part of the tram track (and any extension) for buses also? Would it fit buses going in both directions?

I'm not privy to their thoughts at all. However, I have noticed an increasing sophistication in terms of tram technology. That is, they are learning and improving as time goes by. As for fitting buses in both directions, it's done in Europe, so I'm sure we could do it here. It's no different really to plenty of country roads where buses pass at 80-90kph.

rubberman wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:42 pm

claybro wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:05 pm

Haven't been following this closely, and apologies if I missed earlier in the thread, but is there any specific reason they have switched to side platforms for the East end rather than centre platforms as used everywhere else in the CBD? Operationally I'm sure the side platforms are better if 2 opposing trams happen to arrive at the same time, but I think the centre platforms look better as in KWS.

If you use side platforms (like most tram operators on the planet do), you can run buses on the tram tracks, either as substitutes ror when trams aren't running, or to take buses off the roads.

Thus, when the trams were stopped from Vic Square to the Entertainment Centre, the buses couldn't use the existing tram stops down Port Road. Thus, extra buses down an already crowded Port Road, while the track and tram stops were unused.

Were those stops side entry, not only could trams use the stops, but also other Port Road and Grange Road buses (and their stops) could use the tram lane as a de-facto busway. Faster for tram travellers, less buses on Port Road car lanes. But centre stops.

If the Liberals had any get up and go in them, they'd promise to slash travel times down the Port Road and Grange Road, plus remove most buses from the car and truck lanes by doing this. It would be cheaper than the O-Bahn tunnel , and probably save as much time. That is, if the Liberals had any get up and go in them.

The Libs would probably rip up the whole network because they're all 'trams to nowhere'.

I'm sad to say the Libs dont have a f**kin clue about Public Transport. I have made multiple attempts to try to get their PT Policy from them. I have received nothing, not even a basic non-generic acknowledgement. As much as it pains this lifelong Liberal-leaning person. Labor have the runs on the board here. My only criticism of them is it appears to be a patchwork spend over the last 16 years without an over-arching strategy in place. but at least they have spent on PT instead of just 100% road projects as we've seen for the best part of 5 decades with the scraps for Public and active transport.

Some photos from yesterday. I know some have been posted before, but there might be some new angles in the set.

The Kintore Avenue intersection, as noted above, will be finished over the long weekend.



East of Kintore Avenue, more kerbing works are underway, presumably to shift the road further south to accommodate the new tram stop.







View towards the west



New signal and light poles are replacing some of the older poles already in place.





This is where the pinch point was previously due to the Urban Nest development. I'm pretty sure the track has been laid, maybe we are waiting for it to be concreted in?



The Pulteney Street intersection was completed last weekend.



Construction of the stop at Pulteney Street





Lastly, some images of the ORAH stop

Norman wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:23 pm

Some photos from yesterday. I know some have been posted before, but there might be some new angles in the set.

...

This is where the pinch point was previously due to the Urban Nest development. I'm pretty sure the track has been laid, maybe we are waiting for it to be concreted in?

...

It was reported in another forum that the westbound track at Urbanest was due to be installed over the weekend of 25/26 November. Immediately following that work the steel plates were laid over the track and traffic was (and still is) diverted over the location. The inside lane at Urbanest remained closed afterwards for some time and more recently has been closed again. The rail support technique being used is comparatively lightweight and intended only to hold the rails in position until concreted rather than bearing the full load of traffic.

It was noticeable in the recent N Tce/K Wm work that prior to concreting quite a lot of electrical work was undertaken including return cables being bonded to the rails, power and detection cabling to the points and connections to what seem to be tram detection or transponder boxes adjacent to the rails at the junctions. Whereas it was pressing to complete this work to reopen the Glenelg -EC service, at other locations such as the oRAH crossover the track may have been left unconcreted to allow such work to be completed in a more leisurely fashion.

At N Tce/K Wm I didn't see any evidence of the conventional traffic signal induction loops (such as were used at Partridge St on Jetty Road) being installed and I presume that a more sophisticated control and detection system is employed at the City intersection.

Also of interest is that the traffic light controllers for the extension have been fitted with backup battery supplies.

I know this is a development forum, probably with little interest in ancient history - but one thing that came to mind seeing the pics of the new East End terminus (thanks Norman) is that construction may have seen removal of the last "old" tramway traction poles in the city square mile. Until recently here were a few of these relics lingering on as street light poles at the eastern end of North Terrace (e.g. outside Ayers House).

English Electric wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:24 am

I know this is a development forum, probably with little interest in ancient history - but one thing that came to mind seeing the pics of the new East End terminus (thanks Norman) is that construction may have seen removal of the last "old" tramway traction poles in the city square mile. Until recently here were a few of these relics lingering on as street light poles at the eastern end of North Terrace (e.g. outside Ayers House).

A what now? Probably looked at them hundreds of times without ever registering what they were. can you post a pic please?

Kasey771 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:33 pm

English Electric wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:24 am

I know this is a development forum, probably with little interest in ancient history - but one thing that came to mind seeing the pics of the new East End terminus (thanks Norman) is that construction may have seen removal of the last "old" tramway traction poles in the city square mile. Until recently here were a few of these relics lingering on as street light poles at the eastern end of North Terrace (e.g. outside Ayers House).

A what now? Probably looked at them hundreds of times without ever registering what they were. can you post a pic please?

You can see them in the 12th, 13th and 14th of Norman's images. They have the old style street lights hanging on them.

In the original form, they had cast iron bases, collars and finials (caps).

Here's one at the St Kilda Tram Museum. This was on the first day in 1972 where trams moved under their own power since leaving the Adelaide system.

Kasey771 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:33 pm

English Electric wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:24 am

I know this is a development forum, probably with little interest in ancient history - but one thing that came to mind seeing the pics of the new East End terminus (thanks Norman) is that construction may have seen removal of the last "old" tramway traction poles in the city square mile. Until recently here were a few of these relics lingering on as street light poles at the eastern end of North Terrace (e.g. outside Ayers House).

A what now? Probably looked at them hundreds of times without ever registering what they were. can you post a pic please?

Here is a shot from a couple of weeks ago showing an old pole still in situ at Adelaide Railway Stn with a ten year old pole for comparison. There are a number of the old poles around the suburbs eg in Kensington Rd and in Goodwood village.

Back in October, I was walking along Flinders Street and found three MTT traction poles in situ. These poles were used on a single track loop that ran north out of the old north eastern quadrant of Victoria Square before running east along Flinders Street before turning trams south in to Pulteney Street.

In the attached photo, one of the poles is in the foreground with the wires running diagonally across the road to another ex tramway pole.

Another pole that is just outside of the CBD by a few metres is next to the current South Terrace tram stop and was by trams on the Hyde Park and Col Light Gardens services which ran along Peacock Road parallel to the Glenelg line.

English Electric wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:24 am

I know this is a development forum, probably with little interest in ancient history - but one thing that came to mind seeing the pics of the new East End terminus (thanks Norman) is that construction may have seen removal of the last "old" tramway traction poles in the city square mile. Until recently here were a few of these relics lingering on as street light poles at the eastern end of North Terrace (e.g. outside Ayers House).

I'm interested in history too. Thanks for pointing out this interesting little bit.

Will409 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:34 pm

Back in October, I was walking along Flinders Street and found three MTT traction poles in situ. These poles were used on a single track loop that ran north out of the old north eastern quadrant of Victoria Square before running east along Flinders Street before turning trams south in to Pulteney Street.

In the attached photo, one of the poles is in the foreground with the wires running diagonally across the road to another ex tramway pole.

Another pole that is just outside of the CBD by a few metres is next to the current South Terrace tram stop and was by trams on the Hyde Park and Col Light Gardens services which ran along Peacock Road parallel to the Glenelg line.

In actual fact most trams ran along Pulteney Street,left into Flinders Street and left into Victoria Square(SE corner),before exiting via Wakefield Street. This single line was mostly used by trams running to and from Victoria Park Racecourse.

I noticed a few old poles on Glen Osmond Road the other day. No idea if they are significant to trams.